does anyone else have concerns about the transmission? it only being a 5 speed instead of a 6 speed. i know previous Evos have been 5 speed, so is anyone else concerned about this being the only option for us that like to change our own gears.

i've driven a Ford Focus with only a 5 speed, but that also has less than half the horsepower of the X. and i drive around a 4 speed in my 72' El Camino, but I doesn't go over 70 mph in that either.

will the 6th gear be missed?

I was concerned at first, but it has been said that the previous 6 spd transmission from Mitsu left plenty to be desired, and the new 5 spd is supposed to be much more robust (can we expect longer clutch life?). Also, the torque and hp curves are supposedly wider than before, so a 5 spd with wider/taller gear ratios will not be much worse than a 6 spd, and of course you benefit from less changing of gears. :)

However, another analysis on this site (use search) does caution that track straight away speeds (after accelerating out of a corner) will suffer with the 5 spd.

I think Mitsu missed the boat, however, because a 6 spd is just easier to sell. It sounds faster. Some here have speculated they only put in a 5 spd manual to boost sales of the 6 spd SST. Now with the delay of the SST they may have screwed themselves!!! Most deposits for Evo's in Vancouver are for the MR with SST. If these are truly delayed until fall '08 Mitsu will not sell as many Evo's as they hoped they would. I would not mind personally if the SST is delayed, but lots of potential owners will be disappointed.

Mitsu could not fit the 6sp in the X without sacrifcing a lot of reliability. The 5sp in the XGSR is stronger and more reliable than the 5sp in the IX.

Mitsu could not fit the 6sp in the X without sacrifcing a lot of reliability. The 5sp in the XGSR is stronger and more reliable than the 5sp in the IX.

Where did you get this information?

Anyway, for me, I would have liked a 6 speed, but I've never had a 6 speed before, so it's not a big deal to me.

What's important to me is that it's a STRONG, durable transmission.

Where did you get this information?

Anyway, for me, I would have liked a 6 speed, but I've never had a 6 speed before, so it's not a big deal to me.

What's important to me is that it's a STRONG, durable transmission.

I had a 6 speed in my MINI Cooper S and I felt the SC 1.6 litre engine needed it. I enjoyed shifting that tranny, but mostly just used 3 gears in spirited driving (2, 3 and 4) on the track, 5 gears in town, and up to 6th gear on the highway.

yeah the 6th gear is really only suitable for highway driving.

i just don't understand Mitsubishi using a 6 speed automatic transmission but leaving the manual 5 speed, beefed up or not. especially with previous Evos having a 6 speed. maybe there will be something offered down the road but that kinda shafts us early buyers. thus is life, i guess.

Given the broad torque curve of the 4B11T, 5 forward gears is all I need. :)

When I drove my friend's STi, I found that his 5th gear, and the 5th gear in my Civic (GSR swap) are the same rev / mph. Of course, he had that extra gear, but I'm just throwing that out there.

yeah the 6th gear is really only suitable for highway driving.

i just don't understand Mitsubishi using a 6 speed automatic transmission but leaving the manual 5 speed, beefed up or not. especially with previous Evos having a 6 speed. maybe there will be something offered down the road but that kinda shafts us early buyers. thus is life, i guess.

I'm sure the marketing dept had something to do with the decision.

If there was a 6MT, people would be less likely to go for the SST box, and ultimately, that's what they want to sell you.

Where did you get this information?

Anyway, for me, I would have liked a 6 speed, but I've never had a 6 speed before, so it's not a big deal to me.

What's important to me is that it's a STRONG, durable transmission.

From Mitsu's Press release:

New Compact Manual Transmission for Evolution GSR
The 2008 Lancer Evolution GSR debuts a new 5-speed manual transmission (W5M6A) that provides a higher torque capacity than the 5-speed manual transmission used in the previous-generation Evolution models. The new transmission is also six millimeters shorter than the previous 5-speed and the same as the 6-speed used before.

Enabling higher torque capacity requires greater gear face width, which would then result in to a longer transmission case. To make the room needed without lengthening the case, the W5M6A manual deletes a dedicated Reverse gear. Instead, Reverse is provided by meshing 1st and 3rd gears, with synchromesh used to a synchronize the idler gears that mesh them.

The 5-speed manual transmission uses triple synchros on 1st and 2nd gears and a double synchro on 3rd. The new transmission adds double synchros on 4th and 5th, compared to single synchros on the previous transmissions, to enhance durability when used on high-speed tracks, for example. A new ball-type synchro key is used, as well.

^The new W5M6A sounds pretty hardcore. There's no way that a 6 speed could have fit if it was gonna have to endure any abuse.

From Mitsu's Press release:

New Compact Manual Transmission for Evolution GSR
The 2008 Lancer Evolution GSR debuts a new 5-speed manual transmission (W5M6A) that provides a higher torque capacity than the 5-speed manual transmission used in the previous-generation Evolution models. The new transmission is also six millimeters shorter than the previous 5-speed and the same as the 6-speed used before.

Ok, so the new 5 speed is the same length as the old 6 speed.

Enabling higher torque capacity requires greater gear face width,

Either that, or a stronger metal...

which would then result in to a longer transmission case. To make the room needed without lengthening the case, the W5M6A manual deletes a dedicated Reverse gear. Instead, Reverse is provided by meshing 1st and 3rd gears, with synchromesh used to a synchronize the idler gears that mesh them.

Huh? I need pics to understand this part.

The 5-speed manual transmission uses triple synchros on 1st and 2nd gears and a double synchro on 3rd.

WOW.

The new transmission adds double synchros on 4th and 5th, compared to single synchros on the previous transmissions, to enhance durability when used on high-speed tracks, for example. A new ball-type synchro key is used, as well.

Sounds like they did a bang up job with this trans...

hmmm... that 5 speed sounds beastly. should be more than enough.

Yeah, it sounds fine. The transmission is not a show-stopper for me, I could live with the 5 speed, especially knowing it can handle everything the motor dishes out. It just doesn't sound as sporty or high performance as a 6 spd transmission. It's like, red is faster than silver, there's no arguing it!

A 6MT vs 5MT transmission is not going to be any faster nor is it any "sportier". In most cases, the 6th gear simply adds an extra deep "overdrive" ratio to optimize highway mileage. Most manual trannies have a gear ratio near 1:1 for 4th gear, 0.75 for 5th and then drop even further to 0.5 in 6th. Obviously, this would be great for those who will be doing a lot of highway driving; it does little for track racing.
The SST tranny is geared differently (at least numbers that have been published in other posts) with a near 1:1 in 5th gear and 0.75 in 6th. The final gear ratio is listed as different though (different differential gears?).

A 6MT vs 5MT transmission is not going to be any faster nor is it any "sportier". In most cases, the 6th gear simply adds an extra deep "overdrive" ratio to optimize highway mileage. Most manual trannies have a gear ratio near 1:1 for 4th gear, 0.75 for 5th and then drop even further to 0.5 in 6th. Obviously, this would be great for those who will be doing a lot of highway driving; it does little for track racing.
The SST tranny is geared differently (at least numbers that have been published in other posts) with a near 1:1 in 5th gear and 0.75 in 6th. The final gear ratio is listed as different though (different differential gears?).

The Evo X 5 spd gear ratios are:
1st 2.857, 2nd 1.950, 3rd 1.444, 4th 1.096, 5th 0.761, Rev 2.892, Final 4.687

The STI 6 spd gear ratios are:
1st 3.636, 2nd 2.235, 3rd 1.521, 4th 1.137, 5th 0.971, 6th 0.756, Rev 3.545, Final 3.90

The WRX 5 spd gear ratios are:
1st 3.166, 2nd 1.882, 3rd 1.296, 4th 0.972, 5th 0.738, Rev 3.333, Final 3.90

How do I compare these ratios? Are 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears closer in the STI than in the Evo X, WRX? Do I multiply each gear by the final drive ratio? Then compare the difference between one gear and the next?

To be sure the new X 5 speed is better then the revised IX 5 speed , we need to wait a little...
The new reverse set up can be a problem too. The extra streingh can equal out, with the added overall car weight. So in simple: almost 300 lbs heavier peformance car is harder on the tranny.

6 speed tranny advantige is on the road course, in the turns you can keep the engine in higher rpm. So it is improves cornering and exit speed. But you can over come on this, with extra hp. So in stock form the 6 speed is better ,but when the car gets extra hp, the 6 speed advantige is starts fading. You can get to the point where is basicly unneccesery , or even slower. Since you need to shift more, and every shifting is time.

the evo 6th gear, is not an overdrive gear.

Wake up and join the 21st century...the three pedal system is dead and SMG, DCS and now TC-SST rule. I too had a concern about the new fangled SMG when I first got my e60 M5...now after 3 years and 40k miles I will never own an antiquated three pedal system again for a daily driver or track car...there is a reason why F1 and WRC went to similar systems years ago...

[
the evo 6th gear, is not an overdrive gear.[/quote] ..........................................................yes it is...6th gear in the MR TC-SST has a 0.775 ratio...which makes it an overdrive...

Pics plz. I thought the 6MT was longer than the 5MT....

[
the evo 6th gear, is not an overdrive gear. ..........................................................yes it is...6th gear in the MR TC-SST has a 0.775 ratio...which makes it an overdrive...[/quote]

i was talking about the IX MR. since we where talking about the 6MT vs 5MT.

..........................................................yes it is...6th gear in the MR TC-SST has a 0.775 ratio...which makes it an overdrive...

i was talking about the IX MR. since we where talking about the 6MT vs 5MT.[/quote]
Since the EVO X MR is also a 6MT, albeit a twin clutch version, I thought that was the model you were referring too...

MT requiers clutch pedals . the new tranny at least semi manual, since you dont use your leg to shift at all. Even the sequential tranny have they own name . Nobody refer them as a manual. As far as i know.

MT requiers clutch pedals . the new tranny at least semi manual, since you dont use your leg to shift at all. Even the sequential tranny have they own name . Nobody refer them as a manual. As far as i know.
Regardless on what some people incorrectly call them, TC, SMG, F1 and DCS are all manual transmissions...its just that the clutch is actuated by hydraulic, electric and/or pneumatic means rather than leg power. FYI, SMG means sequential MANUAL gearbox! The new EVO X MR TC-SST tranny is a great 6MT that is shifted with paddles or a small stick shifter in the console...it has no torque convertor and is 100% a 6MT...

"A semi-automatic transmission (also known as clutchless manual transmission, dual-clutch transmission, automated manual transmission, e-gear, shift-tronic, flappy paddle gearbox, or paddle shift gearbox) is a system which uses electronic sensors, processors and actuators to do gear shifts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear_shift) on the command of the driver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving). "

so there is no clear defenition there, like the clutch using manual. that is why we "incorrectly" using any tranny wich not required clutch pedal MOVEMENT even if it has , At least semi automatic transmission.
Also in the manual transmission has no option for full automatic mode :)
Sounds logic ,right? Even when is not "correct."

The reason why some call it manual /besides marketing/, because you shift the gears. But that is a half you do compare to the manual. So that is why we call them semi but still manual. :)
But if you like to call that tranny manual, what ever makes you happy :)

Parkerfe,

You are well informed, these transmissions are all manuals. However I disagree with you that three pedal manuals are dead, Formula One's super sequential transmissions still have a clutch used for getting the car moving or launching at start (the Caparo T1 also has a similar clutch pedal with its sequential tranny). I think manuals are well and will stay that way for a long time. Your M5 is a great machine by the way. I though like slipping the clutch myself in certain situations, rain, snow or not using my breaks in traffic. Sure it gets to be a pain sometimes but doing it myself give me a certain satisfaction, call me an old fashioned 25 year old :-P. I do think that automatic transmissions as we know them should cease to exist, they are just horrible and sooner or later transmissions like the SST will find their ways into every vehicle I would hope. As far as the SST in the Evo X, hell yeah I wanna drive one. Just so I could feel like Loeb or Raikkonen. :godance:

But I will purchase a 5MT or 6MT (if it ever does surface) when i get my Evo X. Big praise for Mitsubishi for taking a leap and creating the SST.

Happy spirited and safe driving all. :drive:

[quote=Robevo;38479] clutchless manual transmission How would you have a "clutchless" transmission unless it was a single speed one? The antiquated foot clutch systems are so 20th century NASCAR anyway that they should not even be offered on a modern WRC inspired car! You sure will not find such a foot clutch system on any of the FIA WRC rally cars...

Parkerfe,

You are well informed, these transmissions are all manuals. However I disagree with you that three pedal manuals are dead, Formula One's super sequential transmissions still have a clutch for used for getting the car moving or launching at start (the Caparo T1 also has a similar clutch pedal with its sequential tranny). I think manuals are well and will stay that way for a long time. Your M5 is a great machine by the way. I though like slipping the clutch myself in certain situations, rain, snow or not using my breaks in traffic. Sure it gets to be a pain sometimes but doing it myself give me a certain satisfaction, call me an old fashioned 25 year old :-P. I do think that automatic transmissions as we know them should cease to exist, they are just horrible and sooner or later transmissions like the SST will find their ways into every vehicle I would hope. As far as the SST in the Evo X, hell yeah I wanna drive one. Just so I could feel like Loeb or Raikkonen. :godance:

But I will purchase a 5MT or 6MT (if it ever does surface) when i get my Evo X. Big praise for Mitsubishi for taking a leap and creating the SST.

Happy spirited and safe driving all. :drive:
I believe the F1 clutches for starting are hand operated though

I believe the F1 clutches for starting are hand operated though
yep and they are under the shifter paddles...
Like the half paddle shifter . upper half is the gear, under half is the clutch. And the driver useing them for start or stop the car.
so what is new?

" Since the Ferrari development of the semi automatic gearbox and subsequent Williams development of a sequential semi automatic box, control systems managing the timing of the hydraulic actuation of the gearbox have become just as important as the mechanics. The term Semi automatic should not be confused with Road car alternatives, in F1 terms it means the normally Manual gear selection is managed by electronics and hydraulics. Gear selection is initiated by the driver through paddles on the steering wheel (McLaren had an early version with buttons), the electronics decide the timing of the selector drum and clutch actuation, along with ignition cutting for upshifts and throttle blipping for downshifts."

http://www.scarbsf1.com/transmissions.html

Yep all is activated from those sweet steering wheels. But their duty is handled via the driver instead of letting the software do everything like on our roads cars. So I would still consider it in the territory of a 3 pedal system. I'm pretty sure they do this because it allows the driver more personal control over launching from the grid along with the launch control system. On a side note do you guys know if the launch control is still in place for the 2008 season or has it been omitted along with the traction control ban?

[quote=Robevo;38479] clutchless manual transmission How would you have a "clutchless" transmission unless it was a single speed one? The antiquated foot clutch systems are so 20th century NASCAR anyway that they should not even be offered on a modern WRC inspired car! You sure will not find such a foot clutch system on any of the FIA WRC rally cars...

i meant the cluch pedal and you know that. The WRC car have "Sequentially controlled 6-speed semi-automatic gearbox "

Subaru
http://www.swrt.com/championship/event_overview.html?id=694

Citroen
http://www.worldcarfans.com/2060907.008/2007-citroen-c4-wrc-revealed

Skoda
http://www.worldcarfans.com/2060907.008/2007-citroen-c4-wrc-revealed

sorry.

[quote=Robevo;38488][quote=parkerfe;38482]

i meant the cluch pedal and you know that. The WRC car have "Sequentially controlled 6-speed semi-automatic gearbox "

I could only go by what you typed...and, those WRC cars have no clutch pedal either...so what's your point?

I think for me and a lot of other people the new Semi Autos or Automated Manuals or what ever name we can give them are a bit overwhelming. Progress of technology and performance are a given and I am all for it, I wouldn't watch F1, WRC or Moto GP if it weren't a passion of mine. But for road going cars there are still question marks. Mainly the cost of repair if something goes wrong and working on the vehicle. Race teams have nothing to worry about since these parts are their daily bread and butter. But to us, even most knowledgeable tuners and technicians it is a foreign affair. The complexity matches the performance...astounding.
So many will purchase the vehicle in its manual trim, as a lot of reviewers have said it will be the choice for anyone looking to modify their Evo. Therefore I'm glad we were given both options.

[quote=Robevo;38488][quote=parkerfe;38482]

i meant the cluch pedal and you know that. The WRC car have "Sequentially controlled 6-speed semi-automatic gearbox "

I could only go by what you typed...and, those WRC cars have no clutch pedal either...so what's your point?

well i'm sure you see how they call the "manual" transmissons there incorectly... no clutch in use = semi automatic. In case you forgot why you argue with me.:bowlol:

"Regardless on what some people incorrectly call them, TC, SMG, F1 and DCS are all manual transmissions...its just that the clutch is actuated by hydraulic, electric and/or pneumatic means rather than leg power. FYI, SMG means sequential MANUAL gearbox! The new EVO X MR TC-SST tranny is a great 6MT that is shifted with paddles or a small stick shifter in the console...it has no torque convertor and is 100% a 6MT..."

calling the semi automatic tranny manual= marketing.:thumbup:

calling the semi automatic tranny manual= marketing.:thumbup:[/quote] No, its called truth in advertising...in fact, it is my understanding that the 6 speed SMG tranny in my M5 is the same transmission as the three pedal 6 speed offered as an option...only the clutch system is different...

" The Twin Clutch SST is a 6-speed automated manual transmission incorporating a dual automated clutch system to deliver lightning-fast, slick shifting for feel-good acceleration; while it also provides high-efficiency power transmission for outstanding fuel economy."
so the X is a semi auto tranny. case closed.

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/01/officially-official-mitsubishi-lancer-evolution-x/

I think its all in the way you look at it and neither of you is incorrect. As I see it there are two schools of thought.
1. The way gears are selected will indicate the name of the transmission.

2. The components in use indicate the name.

Looking at the Evo X SST its could be either. Heck you could even call it a full automatic transmission going by the first school of thought. Leave it in the normal mode and it will even slip the clutch to simulate the torque converter feel of a slush box. Going by the second school of thought here it is a manual as it uses the same components of a 6MT without a clutch pedal. I do believe it is just a matter of the name applied to them by the manufacturer. SST, DSG, SMG, F1 sequential etc. So long as we know how they operate internally is what matters. They are fast, efficient and transmit power strongly without having to labor at it with a moving lever or sensitive clutch. :D

I don't think there was a case to begin with Robevo, what's in a name anyway? I don't think either of you are wrong, there is a truth to both your opinions. I'm sure some company is working on their new Semi Auto Manual Super Sequential F1 Gear (SAMSSF1 for short) box right now lol. I think we got way off topic as well.

DSG

"It’s like a far more advanced big brother of automated manual transmissions (http://paultan.org/archives/2006/04/25/volkswagen-dsg-direct-shift-gearbox/#) like the one found in the Proton Savvy AMT. Something like BMW’s SMG, but Volkswagen’s DSG was the first to have dual clutches. Volkswagen’s DSG transmission also has a triptronic function, allowing gears to be manually selected as well as an automatic mode.
A conventional manual gearbox has a human foot-operated single clutch."

http://paultan.org/archives/2006/04/25/volkswagen-dsg-direct-shift-gearbox/

SMG
"I'm not going to say that it is better than a traditional manual gearbox, but there are some advantages which make it possible to drive the M3 more smoothly and safely at higher speeds, and add an element of excitement that wasn't there before."
"As well, the SMG is capable of operating completely automatically if desired. "
"As the SMG is very similar to a manual transmission, the car tends to roll back when starting on a hill."
http://www.canadiandriver.com/testdrives/02m3_smg.htm

lets make a note here... The german manufaturers like to be unique. So very offen calling samethings in different names. And in europe , you can't sell sports car ,wich has an "automatic" tranny ,even it its semi. So they name this tranny's any name but that. Marketing. The automatic tranny is in eu. is lot less popular then here. and i was very nice with the popular.

GoKimiGo is correct. Whether you refer to modern hydraulic gearboxes as manual or automatic is relative and either of you can argue your point, but it's not the point of this thread. Please stay on topic.

well at least i did show proof for mine, an others stand point / like the WRC teams or F1 teams/ against the evox memeber opinion. so at least i deserve the credit before this is gone...:props:


:):):):):):)

So how about that stone age 5MT, eh? lol I am glad they beefed it up. I can't wait to test it out, for those of you who have does it have that nice mechanical feel to it? Does it 'cha chink' into the gates? I thoroughly enjoy that sound, the 6MT in the lotus' make that wonderful sound. I wish that car could make a good daily driver :(. I'd be all over that like butter and syrup on pancakes!

i always liked the 5 speed mt better then the 6. specially if the top speed is a same... Since just a little mods in the evo and the 5 is outshines the 6.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the Evo X 5MT's top speed of 162 is gear limited, it was mentioned it in R&T review if my memory serves me. So another gear (same gearing kept of course) could net some more top speed. But as in the IX the 6MT had shorter gearing than the 5MT so I don't think it would ever make a big difference, even the FQ400 topped out at 175mph during testing although for some reason I think it was drag limited. The Evo X seems more aerodynamically efficient so one never knows unless he tries. I'm sure we will find out soon enough with all these great tuners doing their thing. A taller fifth or final gear perhaps?

i dont know the top speed differences on the X.
basicly before the X, the car was drag limited since didn't had enough power to being rpm limited.. :)
so i dont think you can be rpm limited on the x too in factory stage.
The X gears are not shorter?
there is trns guys out there who can upgrade the gears easy. I'm sure will be avaiable for the X too.

We'll have to compare them, I'll try and do some research as well as find that R&T article as well.

does anyone else have concerns about the transmission? it only being a 5 speed instead of a 6 speed. i know previous Evos have been 5 speed, so is anyone else concerned about this being the only option for us that like to change our own gears.

i've driven a Ford Focus with only a 5 speed, but that also has less than half the horsepower of the X. and i drive around a 4 speed in my 72' El Camino, but I doesn't go over 70 mph in that either.

will the 6th gear be missed?
I'm missing it I can honestly say.........wish it did have a 6th gear. :(

I have a 5MT Evo X with 1500 miles. I notice sometimes that the gears are sort of stubborn to put into gear when starting it up cold. Is that normal? After driving for a while on a warm engine, the shifts become a lot smoother. Does anyone else experience that?

I have a 5MT Evo X with 1500 miles. I notice sometimes that the gears are sort of stubborn to put into gear when starting it up cold. Is that normal? After driving for a while on a warm engine, the shifts become a lot smoother. Does anyone else experience that?

yes, several owners have reported this.. usually under the title of notchy, notchiness or sticky gears.. have a quick search for it and you'll find those threads.

I experience the same thing, its winter down here in New Zealand and oh boy is it sticky in the morning

I have a 5MT Evo X with 1500 miles. I notice sometimes that the gears are sort of stubborn to put into gear when starting it up cold. Is that normal? After driving for a while on a warm engine, the shifts become a lot smoother. Does anyone else experience that?

Yes i have the exact same thing. Pretty normal i believe. Im at about 3000 miles now im going to get the tranny fluid flushed here soon to see if that makes any bit of difference.

personally i have no prob. with the beefed up 5 speed tranny

Here's my thoughts on the matter. Now, keep in mind that I don't have an Evo...so I'm just speaking strictly from car physics...

In my mind the 5 speed would be a little more productive when you are higher in HP. With the 6 speed, I could imagine the ratios being so close that you're rowing a boat the whole time you drive. As people mod the cars more and more, get more power out of them and quite possibly a more broad power band, having a longer gear could be beneficial because time is not lost in the shifting, more time is spent in that gear, possibly producing a more usable power band. Again, these are just my thoughts.

My M3 would begin to bog in 6th under about 68MPH if I recall - so I ended up in 5th most of the time anyway. I'd like a 6spd, but its no show stopper for the Evo. A strong tranny is waaaaay more important.

I have maxed my 5th gear out twice already I wish it being a 5sd that the gears where longer. I hope someone makes a awesome gear ratio for this beast.

I have maxed my 5th gear out twice already I wish it being a 5sd that the gears where longer. I hope someone makes a awesome gear ratio for this beast.

Whew... I have not been at redline in 5th, but if I remember correctly that happens 150+ mph. Hope you're being safe out there.

LOL its close to my tuner where they take all the cars to see what they will do it is a old airport not being used anymore.



Whew... I have not been at redline in 5th, but if I remember correctly that happens 150+ mph. Hope you're being safe out there.