WOW!! That should sum it up. After 5 hours last night, we got the old manifold and downpipe out. There is a bolt on the bottom of the O2 housing-turbine housing that is backward. We tried every wrench, extension, ratchet, sockets, everything. Only a 1/4 inch shallow socket will fit, but it's way too tight. We torched it off. Could not get it after 2 hours. Finally it's out! We go to install the new ETS unit and the first, and third bolts break right away when we started screwing in. Now my car slept at the shop overnight, and four guys have been at these 2 bolts for over 6 hours today now trying to drill them out. This sucks!!! I want my car back! Really this job was about 10x harder than i expected it to be. It's absolutely nuts.

EDIT: added some pics!
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u114/wis913/evo/evo.jpg

holy cow sounds like you got a poo end of the stick with your downpipe. I mean I know people have broken bolts trying to get them out but your's is the first i've heard of people snapping bolts putting the dp on. Hopefully the gains/sound from the external dump will all be worth it. Good luck!

Wow I should be getting mine in a few days and now you have me scared to install it myself and I am no noob to working on these types of things. I installed the turbo kit on my Z.

But this has me a little worried. How much will a shop charge to do the install?

it was a PITA indeed, i was in the shop for 5 hours for the entire procedure. the result was rewarding though so dont give up!

put the other bolts back in and take the pressure off that one bolt. then spray it with nutbuster of some sort, let it sit, and then use a angled 14mm.. it will come off.. you have to BEAST it off though.

put the other bolts back in and take the pressure off that one bolt. then spray it with nutbuster of some sort, let it sit, and then use a angled 14mm.. it will come off.. you have to BEAST it off though.

Thanks meat :) We already melted it off via torch. Just trying to drill out 2 bolts now. Whatever they charge me for this install i am going to pay them double! I tried the angled 14mm and could not budge it BTW. ANyone trying this be sure to use a lift! And be prepared for trouble just in case (allow lots of time).

it was a PITA indeed, i was in the shop for 5 hours for the entire procedure. the result was rewarding though so dont give up!

Yeah i cannot wait to start dumping on hoes!

wow! good luck with that

A buddy of mine did it in his garage with no lift. It took a few hours, but had no issues. He did mine which is an ETS and a friend's AMS downpipe so far. He is a mechanic with all the right tools, which helps.

It can be done...

Took me like 6-7 hours to do boostsavesus's downpipe. It's tight back there.

7 hours for a downpipe, OMG this scares me, my last few cars took like an hour or 2 with beer breaks :(

only ONE word for this install PATIENTS oh yea and lube :)

haha dammit this scares me too! i did my sti dp in like an hour with having never even seen the underside of the damn car before the day... good thing i know some cool guys with shops, ill just drop it off pick it up and call it a day once i get my AMS.

WOW!! That should sum it up. After 5 hours last night, we got the old manifold and downpipe out. There is a bolt on the bottom of the O2 housing-turbine housing that is backward. We tried every wrench, extension, ratchet, sockets, everything. Only a 1/4 inch shallow socket will fit, but it's way too tight. We torched it off. Could not get it after 2 hours. Finally it's out! We go to install the new ETS unit and the first, and third bolts break right away when we started screwing in. Now my car slept at the shop overnight, and four guys have been at these 2 bolts for over 6 hours today now trying to drill them out. This sucks!!! I want my car back! Really this job was about 10x harder than i expected it to be. It's absolutely nuts.

This is exactly what I expect to happen every time.

A buddy of mine did it in his garage with no lift. It took a few hours, but had no issues. He did mine which is an ETS and a friend's AMS downpipe so far. He is a mechanic with all the right tools, which helps.

It can be done...

That's amazing. We have 3 mechanics here working on it and another 10 hours today....still not done! Took 9 hours, a new right angle drill, 14 carbide tip drill bits and porting tools, a torch, 3 pints of blood, 3 angry wives, a 17 pack of beer, and the tool shop across the street sharpening our drill bits every 10 minutes to drill out 2 broken bolts on the turbine housing! My guess is they became super tempered after we tried to burn them off with the torch. My advice, DO NOT USE THE TORCH! Shave them down and drill them but DO NOT USE THE TORCH!! I have never had so much trouble drilling 2 screws. We have every tool imaginable in the machining complex where i am at. Tool makers, Mechanics, hardware makers, and i own a watch company and we even have tools for drilling holes in tungsten carbide, every tool is available at our disposal. you name it! There was not a working tool for the job. literally we drilled at the rate of about 1mm per 2 hours. No joke. I am going to wake up in a cold sweat thinking about this! I am hoping we can finish it up in the morning. We fitted up the downpipe and went home :) The plus side, it's cake to run the wideband sensor! We used the grommet that the O2 sensor runs through. It goes right into the front of the carpet and took seconds to run it, so i'll have that all hooked up too now :) Still sucks not having a car!

I cant recall how long it took me either 4 or 6 hours.
But I KNOW I can remove the aftermarket one in under 20 minutes because Ive had to do it once.

I cant recall how long it took me either 4 or 6 hours.
But I KNOW I can remove the aftermarket one in under 20 minutes because Ive had to do it once.

The aftermarket pipe is much easier to reach the bolts! WAY easier.

7 hours for a downpipe, OMG this scares me, my last few cars took like an hour or 2 with beer breaks :(

7 hours? I wish.. We are close to 20 hours. My Eclipse GSX, i MADE the downpipe from 3" mandrel bends, and machined the flanges myself and that only took about 5 hours. This is just bananas.

Holy christ man.... good luck with that. Hopefully you finish that up today.

In other completely unrelated news, i've decided to never remove my 02/downpipe.


:confused2:

My car is at Ivey Tuning as we speak, and they are replacing my entire exhaust with a combo of pieces (AMS dp, Specialty X mid, Perrin CB) before the tune. They do this stuff all day long and they said my AMS dp is a bear to install.......can't wait though :)

My car is at Ivey Tuning as we speak, and they are replacing my entire exhaust with a combo of pieces (AMS dp, Specialty X mid, Perrin CB) before the tune. They do this stuff all day long and they said my AMS dp is a bear to install.......can't wait though :)

After reading this and others, I do believe I will follow suit.

KevinD is on speed dial...

I know exactly what ur going thru my man cause i went thru the same with my CSRT4, the only difference was that i knew that it was gonna be hard to get those bolts out even though the car was new so i gave it a little heat first with a torch and then got them all out thanks god; so good luck with everything i know is hard but eventually u'll get it done

This thread scares the shit out of me... :(

My o2/dp should be here soon :(

Well today my Evo mechanic went through the same thing, He spent 4 hours on trying to get the one bolt on the hot side off(the one with the nut) but He had to give up because He ran out of time!!!

I'm very disappointed to be going home without my Specialty-X downpipe installed, not at the mechanic but at freaking Mitsubishi!! I don't think He wants to touch it anymore. He was thinking that He almost would have to drop the engine and tranny to get at it right but that shouldn't have to happen to get this pipe in.

Now I'm beginning to wonder if this downpipe is worth it? Can anyone say the gains they get out of it is worth the money/time to put it in?

I only know what I have seen from dyno's online, Specialty-X claims 20whp just from their O2/Downpipe alone. I will be posting results soon, I am having the full TBE/O2 install done next week.

OT...I would be really interested to see the results of the actual difference, on a dyno, of a divorced wastegate versus a bellmouth O2/Downpipe design on the same car. I have heard the divorced wastegate is better, that is what I am having installed, but I have nothing to compare to.

Well I was at Ivey today and they got the dp and the rest of the exhaust done. I had the AMS dp done, and as far as bellmouth vs separated goes I can't comment cause I don't know. What I have read on these forums though is that the dp provides more gains than the rest of the exhaust, so I'd say it's worth persevering and getting it done.

OT...I would be really interested to see the results of the actual difference, on a dyno, of a divorced wastegate versus a bellmouth O2/Downpipe design on the same car. I have heard the divorced wastegate is better, that is what I am having installed, but I have nothing to compare to.

I have the printout of the difference saved somewhere (note: not the ams dp). I am trying to find it now.

She is finished up! Driving with the external dump is absolutely bananas!! Anything 15psi and up sounds like a pack of Harleys speeding away! It's deafening! Normal driving sounds pretty much the same save for a cool sounding whistle just before she dumps :) I have to mod the heat sheild to fit back up. Also i have to datalog the AEM wideband as it changes so fast it's worthless to look atr and see what's up while driving. I love it!

put the other bolts back in and take the pressure off that one bolt. then spray it with nutbuster of some sort, let it sit, and then use a angled 14mm.. it will come off.. you have to BEAST it off though.

Hwy meat, that's am impressive time for 304 whp. I wonder what you'll run this season..........

Based on my sig numbers as of today (went to Ivey for some stuff) do you think I have a chance at breaking into the 11's?

I guess at some point you have to contemplate taking the turbo off the car if the bolts break.

That's why i went with a standard downpipe (non-02 housing). I figured if i go a bigger turbo down the road i might eventually change it out, but most likely i won't. To me, the extra cost and minimum performance gains isn't worth the extra bills.

That's why i went with a standard downpipe (non-02 housing). I figured if i go a bigger turbo down the road i might eventually change it out, but most likely i won't. To me, the extra cost and minimum performance gains isn't worth the extra bills.
congrats on wasting money on something proven to provide no gains.

congrats on wasting money on something proven to provide no gains.

how so? the perrin downpipe is a long downpipe with a high flow cat attached to it... prove to me how an AMS downpipe provides gains... their dyno sheet with the increased power is on a modified turbocharger with high octane gasoline.

how so? the perrin downpipe is a long downpipe with a high flow cat attached to it... prove to me how an AMS downpipe provides gains... their dyno sheet with the increased power is on a modified turbocharger with high octane gasoline.
A downpipe alone without the 02 housing is a waste of money for minimal gains, pony up the extra $100 and get an o2 housing/dp combo.

It's hard to tell if this setup has any performance gains as it's so drastically different to drive now. The thing is so loud that i actually am afraid of it a bit :) I mean running through the gears on full boost sounds like it's going to catch fire! It's really crazy. I was thinking of putting an MX bike straight through silencer on the dump tube outlet to refine the sound a bit so i can pay attention to something besides the angry top fueler sound coming from beneath my feet :)

A downpipe alone without the 02 housing is a waste of money for minimal gains, pony up the extra $100 and get an o2 housing/dp combo.

as stated before, give me real proof conducted by non-vendors that it's worth the extra cash for increased power...

so far everyone who had their car ivey tuned, and was very similar mods to me, netted <10 whp and tq more than me.. and a portion was catless with 02 housing... so how does <10 whp, also depending on gas used, temp, humidity, justify the extra cash?

did the o2 housing give them the extra <10 whp and tq, or was it being catless, or was it the weather/gas? as stated before, it's not worth the extra money to me. if you wanna spend an extra $100 and deal with the frustration of getting the oem off, without removing the turbo, then go for it.

Talon 66 is right. I had a vendor who sells the dp without o2 housing tell me that there is a significant difference. He said especially when you start pushing more whp... basically the dp w/o o2 is a waste of money, and thats the word of people that know a hell of a lot more than me!

Talon 66 is right. I had a vendor who sells the dp without o2 housing tell me that there is a significant difference. He said especially when you start pushing more whp... basically the dp w/o o2 is a waste of money, and thats the word of people that know a hell of a lot more than me!

The inside of the OEM O2 housing looks alot like the AMS cast unit, except the outlet is rather small. I can see how there should be gains here.

Damn you Ray Knight your scaring me on how loud its going to be. My wife loves all the mods I do to the car and I have already told her the dump scares people. I dont think she really understands how bad its going to be.

Talon 66 is right. I had a vendor who sells the dp without o2 housing tell me that there is a significant difference. He said especially when you start pushing more whp... basically the dp w/o o2 is a waste of money, and thats the word of people that know a hell of a lot more than me!

Talon and brown are right. The ID of stock downpipe is already 2.75". 1/4" ID change with same flow path/ no restrictions isn't going to make barely any difference. <---Proven over and over by vendors and people on a competing forum.

Damn you Ray Knight your scaring me on how loud its going to be. My wife loves all the mods I do to the car and I have already told her the dump scares people. I dont think she really understands how bad its going to be.

It's EXTREMELY FUCKING LOUD!!! I wish i can get it to open a bit later at around 20psi so normal driving is more comfortable. It's a blast to make it scream and intimidate other drivers, but i dont want it always yelling like that. I just picture a small flamethrower beneath my car! I guess i am going to install my MBC and see if the WGA stays closed longer, and if not, i am going to try a small straight through motorcycle silencer on the dump tube to tone it down a bit. Sounds like a V twin harley with open pipes and nitrous (only louder) with the open dump.

Wow I've never heard it in person an I was going to go open dump on my z but decided to recirculate instead. I know I will like it because I like things loud but I just hope I can daily drive normal because I rarely get on it. My charger srt8 has slp straight pipe exhaust and that's pretty wicked loud and I love it. Hope everything goes good can't wait!

We needs some vid I want to here it with the dump tube

How have you guys not heard an ext wg?

Last night i preloaded the Forge WGA about 1 turn and now it's starting to open at 19psi. Much more drivable. I like it alot like this :) My peak boost is still only 26psi. Normal driving now it does not dump. Sounds normal. Only screams under high boost :)

We needs some vid I want to here it with the dump tube

I think someone had a drive by youtube vid with the external dump extremeboost DP.

Last night i preloaded the Forge WGA about 1 turn and now it's starting to open at 19psi. Much more drivable. I like it alot like this :) My peak boost is still only 26psi. Normal driving now it does not dump. Sounds normal. Only screams under high boost :)

Where are people ordering this Forge WGA?

Where are people ordering this Forge WGA?

I bought mine from Buschur. I think most of the vendors probably sell them.

Wouldn't a wga require a tune or could I run it with my cobb stg 2 map

Wouldn't a wga require a tune or could I run it with my cobb stg 2 map

It depends i guess if you are raising the boost. It may be perfect as is but it's a good idea to get a tune just to be sure.

Any pics!? It seems to be hit or miss with the install. Some o2 housings like to come off easy... well others... well you know! We have the open dump downpipe on our shop car, it's night and day difference once you get into boost.

Any pics!? It seems to be hit or miss with the install. Some o2 housings like to come off easy... well others... well you know! We have the open dump downpipe on our shop car, it's night and day difference once you get into boost.

Hi Michael! I'll take a pic for you. The downpipe is quality for sure and fits better than the OEM stuff.

here ya go!

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u114/wis913/evo/evo.jpg

So my question would be this. How is it not easier to remove the turbo? If you spent 30 hours just getting the downpipe off?

So my question would be this. How is it not easier to remove the turbo? If you spent 30 hours just getting the downpipe off?

That is exactly what my installer is going to do. He said removing the hot side of the turbo makes this a non PITA.

That is exactly what my installer is going to do. He said removing the hot side of the turbo makes this a non PITA.

It really shouldn't require removing the turbo. At that point you may as well and upgrade it!

Seb

here ya go!

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u114/wis913/evo/evo.jpg

Looks good! :yeahthat:

It really shouldn't require removing the turbo. At that point you may as well and upgrade it!

Seb

I will take donations! Does SX make a turbo yet?!

removing the turbine housing would not have helped. The real issue was drilling tempered bolts out. We destroyed over 20 bits and tools drilling them. Including a compressor! Shit almost caught fire from running so hard all day. Even carbide bits were just breaking. We ended up using porting bits and cut through.

^Sorry to hear you had such a rough time with it. At least it's done.

After reading this and others, I do believe I will follow suit.

KevinD is on speed dial...

No longer on speed dial :freak:

We have reports of customers soaking the studs/bolts in pb blaster overnight and not having a problem with the breaking of bolts. It's an idea for future installers.

Thanks,

Michael

We have reports of customers soaking the studs/bolts in pb blaster overnight and not having a problem with the breaking of bolts. It's an idea for future installers.

Thanks,

Michael

Im bankin on this being right! Has anybody actually tried this that can testify it works. thx

getting them off nothing broke. Installing them is when they broke.

Im bankin on this being right! Has anybody actually tried this that can testify it works. thx

getting them off nothing broke. Installing them is when they broke.

Yes soaking nuts and bolts in PB Blaster makes a huge difference for removal and I had none break off during my GT30 turbo install. As for bolts breaking when tightening them are you positve they weren't cross threaded? One thing I noticed is that the downpipe I installed (UR) was also very tough to get the threads started into the turbo. I was using anti-sieze of course but they just didn't want to start threading.

If the threads are too tight, one trick is to file the initial threads down on the bolt to make them start a little easier. I cleaned all the metal bits off with PB Blaster and applied anti-sieze again and typically this let me get the bolt started within 30 sec after doing this. You still need to get the angle right and be able to start it by hand to insure it's not cross threading though. It's also good to test the bolt in the threads without the DP in the way to make sure it will thread easily without the flange in the way. Wiggling the DP slightly as I was trying to thread it seemed to help as well.

I think if the turbo was left slightly loose it would allow for an easier time as well. Loosening the four turbo to manifold bolts, the compressor bracket bolt, and exhaust turbine bracket bolt should be all that it would take, no reason to remove the entire turbo as the oil and coolant lines have enough flex.

Most of my mods i will be slappn on myself. ETS is building my DP right now. I think Ill let Pete at DG motors handle that job. I'm sure all your trouble will be worth it:coffee:

Just got back from the Dyno yesterday. We actually lost power putting the 3" o2 downpipe on with the stock cat. Most likely it was a bad turbulance effect going from 3" to 2 1/2" pipe. Buschur custom made for me on the spot a 3" test pipe with a muffler welded in! It's an awesome part and they were getting pics of it so i bet they are going to offer it soon. I installed it when i got home. it's really not any louder then with the cat, and feels much more smooth and pulls hard! I will have it back on the dyno Monday and we can finish up the tune. I can feel this part made some power. The best we could get on the Mustang dyno yesterday was 294WHP but it got really lean so he dialed it back down a bit and stopped at 279whp. When i arrived before the tune it was 259whp. Before adding the forge WGA and ETS DP it was 268whp. More boost, less power. Had to be the turbulance.

Im bankin on this being right! Has anybody actually tried this that can testify it works. thx

on my evo viii it did..so i'm assuming it's good practice.

We have reports of customers soaking the studs/bolts in pb blaster overnight and not having a problem with the breaking of bolts. It's an idea for future installers.

Thanks,

Michael

I used PB Blaster on my removal and it was cake. I soaked it for a day, popped the bolts with a breaker bar, and then let them soak again. They came off with a small ratchet after that, no resistance at all.

To anyone thinking about doing this! PB blaster first and often. Did two UR O2-Dp delete pipes Friday after reading these horror stories. The best advice was to spray the bolts liberally. Three hours on mine to finish.The other car we installed a turbo, O2-Dp, test pipe. Took a bit longer for that one to get completed, still with patience, breaker bar, wobbleheads, flex ratchets, PB blaster, a few extra hands, and 2 18 packs of ice cold beverage, it was not that bad!

Well after the battle:jedi: of me vs. stock downpipe bolts and small crammed spaces, I dont think i'll ever install a downpipe again.

I feel your pain. It sucks, and sucks real bad with no lift. I was bleeding when it was over, but it felt good:rock:. took me a goot 5 to 6 hrs as well, the funny part is you can have the dam motor out of the car in less time!

Next time there will be beverage and lots of it! Extra set of hands would be nice as well, but not sure my wife would go for that!

So...how hard is it exactly to get the downpipe off with the car only on stands?

I just ordered my DP and all these horror stories are getting me nauseous lol

Pain in the ass.

Downpipe sucks hard.

Downpipe sucks hard.

lol , actually it "blows" ... really hard! ;)..

this job took me a few days , and lots of patience , but well worth the blood , bruises and scars . snapped a bolt , broke to eazy-outs , trying to extract the seized bolt , then got REALLY fed up , and just drilled it right out and used a grade 8 bolt .... its been all downhill from here .

Those bolts are all stainless, which is why everyone's breaking bits trying to get them out once they've snapped. Anything that's threaded stainless likes to seize up or gall up the threads enough that it just won't turn anymore, and a lot of heat just makes it worse. PB Blaster is your friend.