I just went to a shop here in Japan called Monster Motor Sports, they're pretty famous for Evo mods, Pike's Peak Racing, and other rally/race mods. Anyways, I talked to the owner there for about 1.5 hours about Evo X mods and this is what he had to say:

Currently we are still working on our Evo X ECU reflash. It's taking so long to make because the system seems to override their reflash. Even if we adjust the fuel/ignition MAP, it seems to correct itself back to stock. The only thing we did successfully was to remove the speed governor and fuel cut for high boosts.
He also said that this is the reason why HKS is using a F-Con instead of a reflashed ROM, but he did say that even a piggy back system may be overrode by the stock ECU.

He says that ARC is actually testing their reflashed ECU and he said that they should be done at or around April 2008. Once the ECU is done, Monster should have other parts such as intake and exhaust parts available too. The ECU reflashing should be about $700 USD which includes a high output fuel system harness. I asked him what the harness was for and this is what he said:
The capacity of the stock fuel pump and injectors are really high on the new Evo's so you wouldn't really have to replace them. He says that wiring harness for the fuel system uses narrow gauge wires that isn't enough capacity to handle higher loads so they recommend replacing the harness whenever modding the Evo X. He says that it was the same for the Evo IX so their ECU kit for the Evo IX also includes the harness.
Then we talked about the 4B11 engine itself and this is what he had to say:
The new MIVEC system is really good, since it is now both intake and exhaust instead of just intake like the previous Evo IX MR. It's more headaches for the ECU programmer but it gives more potential for mods. The engine is a little weaker than they expected :(. He said he knew the new block would be weaker since it is aluminum but he said that one famous company (he wouldn't tell me the name) already bent a crank on it. He says that for heavy mods, he recommends Tuftriding the crank and conrods.

In one of my previous posts I mentioned that the low and mid range torque was pretty good but the high end is kinda average/weak. I asked the owner about that and he said that it is because the ECU backs off the throttle at high RPMs and they have already found the solution for that in their reflash.

Last we talked about the suspension/handling and this is what he said:
The suspension/handling on the Evo X is great. We tested our EvoX with prototype shocks/springs from Ohlins with no other mods and it beat our Evo IX with over 340HP and full suspension kit on Tsukuba Circuit.

He also said that you shouldn't change the stock brake pads since it will throw off the S-AWC system. Changing the pads will apply too much braking pressure which will slow you down more than the ECU is trying to do. If you want high performance pads, you'll need to reprogram the S-AWC system ECU.

And so my talk with Monster Motor Sports ended and I promised him I will return in April to get my Evo X modified by them.:thumbup: He quoted me about $4000 USD for a power air filter, suction piping, intercooler piping, reflashed full range ECU, EVC, fuel wiring harness, boost gauge, exhaust front pipe, & muffler.

http://www.monster-sport.com/

freaking awesome info Sic.
Can you confirm what HP youre expecting with those mods?

this will obviously null your warrentee right? :(

Awesome info. Much appreciated.

I wonder how much HP caused the crank to bend.

Currently we are still working on our Evo X ECU reflash. It's taking so long to make because the system seems to override their reflash. Even if we adjust the fuel/ignition MAP, it seems to correct itself back to stock. The only thing we did successfully was to remove the speed governor and fuel cut for high boosts.
He also said that this is the reason why HKS is using a F-Con instead of a reflashed ROM, but he did say that even a piggy back system may be overrode by the stock ECU.

Interesting.

The engine is a little weaker than they expected :(. He said he knew the new block would be weaker since it is aluminum but he said that one famous company (he would tell me the name) already bent a crank on it. He says that for heavy mods, he recommends Tuftriding the crank and conrods.

D'oh.

How much power were they making where they bent the CRANK?

In one of my previous posts I mentioned that the low and mid range torque was pretty good but the high end is kinda average/weak. I asked the owner about that and he said that it is because the ECU backs off the throttle at high RPMs and they have already found the solution for that in their reflash.

Ah, the downside of the electronic throttle. The Mazdaspeed 3 and 6 do this as well.

Last we talked about the suspension/handling and this is what he said:
The suspension/handling on the Evo X is great. We tested our EvoX with prototype shocks/springs from Ohlins with no other mods and it beat our Evo IX with over 340HP and full suspension kit on Tsukuba Circuit.

Damn!

freaking awesome info Sic.
Can you confirm what HP youre expecting with those mods?

this will obviously null your warrentee right? :(

He couldn't tell me exactly since it isn't completed yet but he says it should be anywhere from 340-360HP, this is with the catalytic converter.

Yes, the warrentee will be finished after the ECU mod. I don't think the other parts will null the warrentee since you can basically get the same parts from Ralli Art sold by the Mitsubishi Dealers here.

How much power were they making where they bent the CRANK?

He didn't specify, I should've asked. I'll probably go back to the shop sometime in the near future, I'll ask him then. I live about 20 min away from the shop and the owner was really friendly.

That's it! I'm moving to Japan!

^ or the UK where you can pay through the nose for an FQ360.

Thanks for the info SiC, really helpful.


He also said that you shouldn't change the stock brake pads since it will throw off the S-AWC system. Changing the pads will apply too much braking pressure which will slow you down more than the ECU is trying to do. If you want high performance pads, you'll need to reprogram the S-AWC system ECU.

Does this mean if you had a GSR you couldn't upgrade to better rotors/pads without messing with the SAWC ECU?
I'm assuming the GSR and MR AWC-ECU's have different maps.

I guess it's asking too much for the system to use sensor feedback alone to adjust brake force on the fly. I guess it makes sense that it would use some stored values to determine initial brake force and rates though it would be cool if it had some sort of built in learning where it would automatically adjust to a new brake setup over time.

Maybe it does and it was not tested long enough to self adjust?

PS - Looked up tuftriding

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0308_crankshafts_how_to/index2.html

Thanks for the info.

SiC, major props for all this important info that everybody wants to know. Kudos!!!

Yeah, thanks so much for taking the time. I'm kinda sad about the power holding capacity, although strange that it had nothing to so with the block, which is what has been in question. Technically, the crank shouldn't be any weaker than the previous model. If anything, it should be stronger because it is now secured by 4 bolt main bearing caps instead of 2, like in the evo 9. I am going to consider this a fluke until you find out more info. Hmmm...

Ooh, SiC, also ask your tuning guy if adding steel braided brake lines will affect the s-awc. I hope that it doesn't, as doing this always gives better brake feel and more consistent pedal pressure. What a headache it is to have to retune the s-awc system if more aggresive brake pads are installed. Ughh. Great news in the handling department though! Take that evo 9!

Yeah, thanks so much for taking the time. I'm kinda sad about the power holding capacity, although strange that it had nothing to so with the block, which is what has been in question. Technically, the crank shouldn't be any weaker than the previous model. If anything, it should be stronger because it is now secured by 4 bolt main bearing caps instead of 2, like in the evo 9. I am going to consider this a fluke until you find out more info. Hmmm...

http://media.mitsubishicars.com/detail?mid=MIT2007111626250&mime=ASC

The turbocharged version of the new 4B11 features a cross-drilled forged steel crankshaft that rotates in 4-bolt main bearing caps.

maybe the cross drilling of the crank shaft is compromising the strength

Yeah, thanks so much for taking the time. I'm kinda sad about the power holding capacity, although strange that it had nothing to so with the block, which is what has been in question.

Agreed.

Technically, the crank shouldn't be any weaker than the previous model. If anything, it should be stronger because it is now secured by 4 bolt main bearing caps instead of 2, like in the evo 9. I am going to consider this a fluke until you find out more info. Hmmm...

Well, regardless, I'm hoping that the block isn't the weak point. I plan to eventually offer SpeedCircuit stroker motors to the community someday, and if that's the case, the stock crank will be replaced with a stroker crank.

:rock:

http://media.mitsubishicars.com/detail?mid=MIT2007111626250&mime=ASC

The turbocharged version of the new 4B11 features a cross-drilled forged steel crankshaft that rotates in 4-bolt main bearing caps.

maybe the cross drilling of the crank shaft is compromising the strength

Dick Tracy strikes again.

I forgot about the fact that the crank is cross-drilled.

Whatever, no biggie then. Further justifies my reason for a stroker motor (which would require a new crank).

:thumbup:

I was reading about how exactly a stroker setup works on that internet site that you listed about tuftriding treatment for cranks. I knew roughly what it did before, just not how it worked in detail. Pretty cool stuff. Compression ratio seems that it would be a concern with the kit, since it tends to rise because of the increased volume being stuffed into the same size combustion chamber, and since the compression ratio is already higher in the X than in the 9, the kit would have to be really well designed. But, once a kit comes out that's proven itself, I'm in!

Technically, the crank shouldn't be any weaker than the previous model. If anything, it should be stronger because it is now secured by 4 bolt main bearing caps instead of 2, like in the evo 9. I am going to consider this a fluke until you find out more info. Hmmm...
Bending a crank shaft usually has nothing to do with the bearing caps. Bending a crank is basically twisting the crank, it usually happens when engaging the clutch with too much torque.


I was reading about how exactly a stroker setup works on that internet site that you listed about tuftriding treatment for cranks. I knew roughly what it did before, just not how it worked in detail. Pretty cool stuff. Compression ratio seems that it would be a concern with the kit, since it tends to rise because of the increased volume being stuffed into the same size combustion chamber, and since the compression ratio is already higher in the X than in the 9, the kit would have to be really well designed. But, once a kit comes out that's proven itself, I'm in!

Stroker kits usually include shorter conrods or lower profile pistons, thus keeping the same compression but adding more stroke to the cylinder (the piston will go down further). This changes the displacement of the engine.

Yeah, thanks so much for taking the time. I'm kinda sad about the power holding capacity, although strange that it had nothing to so with the block, which is what has been in question. Technically, the crank shouldn't be any weaker than the previous model. If anything, it should be stronger because it is now secured by 4 bolt main bearing caps instead of 2, like in the evo 9. I am going to consider this a fluke until you find out more info. Hmmm...


Am I missing something here? Did we get a power/torque figure at which they supposibly bent the crank?

Am I missing something here? Did we get a power/torque figure at which they supposibly bent the crank?


good point.. it could have been bent when the power was raised to 1000 torque! :)

I was reading about how exactly a stroker setup works on that internet site that you listed about tuftriding treatment for cranks. I knew roughly what it did before, just not how it worked in detail. Pretty cool stuff. Compression ratio seems that it would be a concern with the kit, since it tends to rise because of the increased volume being stuffed into the same size combustion chamber, and since the compression ratio is already higher in the X than in the 9, the kit would have to be really well designed. But, once a kit comes out that's proven itself, I'm in!

Dropping the CR of the motor wouldn't be an issue, and the kit would obviously be designed to do so.

Stroker kits usually include shorter conrods or lower profile pistons, thus keeping the same compression but adding more stroke to the cylinder (the piston will go down further). This changes the displacement of the engine.


:+1:

That's it! I'm moving to Japan!


lol same here, they always get the good stuff first before the States do!

I think that cams would be nasty on the x now that it has mivec on both the intake AND exhaust sides. Add in a good stroker kit, big turbo, intake, exhaust and a reflash and were talking serious power out of this motor! Now we just have to wait for the parts to come out, and for my wallet to get a little thicker.:(