Yesturday I thought I'd go down and take the Cobb Challenge in Plano, and things just did not turn out so well. As some of you know I just have not felt the car has been making the power it is suppose to. The power curve is rough, and it has been runing rich. On top of that in the cold weather I was getting lots of limp modes and codes. I have no dyno graphs today cause I feel like puking. Ak47 was there to see my complete frustration. Initial pull on the dyno was 280whp. Keep in mind with my original tune with just boltons I made 340whp. So I lost 60whp and paid for 3k for more mods. Im ok at this point cause I figure Calvin at Cobb will work his magic and I'll leave with around 400 whp. Well after 9 hours there yesturday I still have barely over 300whp, and have to back down for them to fix a poor install on my cams. Im not going to get into all that was done to diagnose that cams were the issue, but let's just say every time the made a mivec change the opposite of what should happen would occur. Needless to say Im pretty upset about it all, and really wish I would have went with Cobb on everything. The other shop has said they would fix the issue, but at this point I really do not want to go back there at all. So now Im going to be out another 200 to fix that.

$200 isn't too bad. Did they install the exhaust cam on the intake side or something? I know what you said about the mivec tuning portion, but how did they mechanically figure out what was wrong?

It won't be known for sure until the cover is actually taken off, but to them all evidence points to the cams. I'd have to say it's pretty disappointing when they pull up other graphs with a Dom and no cams and it's making 390ish, and I was making 280 with cams.

The brighter side of this is your motor did not explode when they redline it and it will cost you more, good catched with cobb.

The brighter side of this is your motor did not explode when they redline it and it will cost you more, good catched with cobb.

This is true.

If you saw how pissed the wife is about another day wasted down there you would nor see much brighter side right now. Especially after taking an entire vacation around these installs.

just pm me when are you gonna come back.im gonna bring my hd cam for your 400 to the wheels dyno.

Well see, I have no idea when I can get back down to have that issue resolved. Especially this time of year.

Yesturday I thought I'd go down and take the Cobb Challenge in Plano, and things just did not turn out so well. As some of you know I just have not felt the car has been making the power it is suppose to. The power curve is rough, and it has been runing rich. On top of that in the cold weather I was getting lots of limp modes and codes. I have no dyno graphs today cause I feel like puking. Ak47 was there to see my complete frustration. Initial pull on the dyno was 280whp. Keep in mind with my original tune with just boltons I made 340whp. So I lost 60whp and paid for 3k for more mods. Im ok at this point cause I figure Calvin at Cobb will work his magic and I'll leave with around 400 whp. Well after 9 hours there yesturday I still have barely over 300whp, and have to back down for them to fix a poor install on my cams. Im not going to get into all that was done to diagnose that cams were the issue, but let's just say every time the made a mivec change the opposite of what should happen would occur. Needless to say Im pretty upset about it all, and really wish I would have went with Cobb on everything. The other shop has said they would fix the issue, but at this point I really do not want to go back there at all. So now Im going to be out another 200 to fix that.


This is where everyone needs to get together and boycott "Evolution Dynamics" until they cough up the money you gave them "At a minimum" but I would also say they should pay for Cobb to re-install plus the money you spent yesterday trying to pin point the issue. Granted its not all proven yet but losing 60 whp on a turbo and cams is a pretty good indicator.

Subscribed...

I hope you get it worked out.

Kris

This is where everyone needs to get together and boycott "Evolution Dynamics" until they cough up the money you gave them "At a minimum" but I would also say they should pay for Cobb to re-install plus the money you spent yesterday trying to pin point the issue. Granted its not all proven yet but losing 60 whp on a turbo and cams is a pretty good indicator.

I do not want to go there with this thread, and the evo dynamics guys have been nice. I also still think they are a decent shop that just did not perform up to par for me. I agree I would like to have the cash back for cam install and tune, but that's not going to happen. I have never known any shop that would. It usually just blamed on risk of modding. Please do not turn this into a flame thread, and Im not out to bad mouth any shop. I just wanted to put my numbers and experience out there. I like to think of this forum as problem solvers not drama creators. Yes Im upset, but best I can do is move on and make it right. The EvoD guys have offered to check on installs and fit me in anytime. I just at this point do not want to go back since I am now way right wing when it comes to dyno tuning now. You need it to make sure you yeild results and can for see problems.

yikes..... you are way to easy going dude.....

yikes..... you are way to easy going dude.....

Just not about forum drama. I'll handle it privately with them. I do how ever think results and hard facts should be posted for future knowledge of the community. Plus, it doesn't help me to go on a rant. I just look like immature ass hole. EvoD has been in no way unhelpful they just have not yeilded good results on my car. They have offered to fix it I just do not want to go back cause I want it done right then I want to see the results right after. Also like I said we are not 100 percent it's the cams at this point, but everything else seems to be working right.

Yesturday I thought I'd go down and take the Cobb Challenge in Plano, and things just did not turn out so well. As some of you know I just have not felt the car has been making the power it is suppose to. The power curve is rough, and it has been runing rich. On top of that in the cold weather I was getting lots of limp modes and codes. I have no dyno graphs today cause I feel like puking. Ak47 was there to see my complete frustration. Initial pull on the dyno was 280whp. Keep in mind with my original tune with just boltons I made 340whp. So I lost 60whp and paid for 3k for more mods. Im ok at this point cause I figure Calvin at Cobb will work his magic and I'll leave with around 400 whp. Well after 9 hours there yesturday I still have barely over 300whp, and have to back down for them to fix a poor install on my cams. Im not going to get into all that was done to diagnose that cams were the issue, but let's just say every time the made a mivec change the opposite of what should happen would occur. Needless to say Im pretty upset about it all, and really wish I would have went with Cobb on everything. The other shop has said they would fix the issue, but at this point I really do not want to go back there at all. So now Im going to be out another 200 to fix that.

I'd definately go back. Looks like a trip for you though. You really should stick with the original installer until it's resolved then move on. It's harder to troubleshoot a problem with anything when you weren't the initial installer.

Kris

Just not about forum drama. I'll handle it privately with them. I do how ever think results and hard facts should be posted for future knowledge of the community. Plus, it doesn't help me to go on a rant. I just look like immature ass hole. EvoD has been in no way unhelpful they just have not yeilded good results on my car. They have offered to fix it I just do not want to go back cause I want it done right then I want to see the results right after. Also like I said we are not 100 percent it's the cams at this point, but everything else seems to be working right.

well said.... my blood would be boiling in the background though.....

Interesting and crappy.

I don't know enough about cams to troubleshoot anything, but that really sucks. I don't even know how that happens, can they be installed that wrong without causing other issue than just a drop in power? I saw your map (without logs) and the other parameters appeared advanced without being too aggressive. The MIVEC settings were definitely weird, but like I said, I don't know enough about cams to know what was done.

Well, I hope this gets settled quickly. Tell the wife that this isn't a little problem and that the whole internets is rooting for you. You need to get it fixed.

I do not want to go there with this thread, and the evo dynamics guys have been nice. I also still think they are a decent shop that just did not perform up to par for me. I agree I would like to have the cash back for cam install and tune, but that's not going to happen. I have never known any shop that would. It usually just blamed on risk of modding. Please do not turn this into a flame thread, and Im not out to bad mouth any shop. I just wanted to put my numbers and experience out there. I like to think of this forum as problem solvers not drama creators. Yes Im upset, but best I can do is move on and make it right. The EvoD guys have offered to check on installs and fit me in anytime. I just at this point do not want to go back since I am now way right wing when it comes to dyno tuning now. You need it to make sure you yeild results and can for see problems.

Road tuning only works when you do it and have some way to measure. Be it some form of virtual dyno or trap speed and time. As far as flaming thats not where I was intending to go. However if it were me and I contacted them and they were unwilling to fix the issue I would take it to every bussiness agency and a explanation with pictures about the incident would be on every Evo forum on the web.

When you pay for a good or service regardless of what it is when the end product is flawed or broken by the vendor you dont just chalk it up to a learning experience. That would be like going to best buy and getting a $1000 plasma screen, having it home for a week before it died and just forget about it and buy another. Or hiring a landscaper to put you in a lawn only to have it die because they rolled it out upside down.

Like Legend said....

yikes..... you are way to easy going dude.....

This is where everyone needs to get together and boycott "Evolution Dynamics" until they cough up the money you gave them "At a minimum" but I would also say they should pay for Cobb to re-install plus the money you spent yesterday trying to pin point the issue. Granted its not all proven yet but losing 60 whp on a turbo and cams is a pretty good indicator.
:+1:
If it turns out to be the cams installed in the reversed (how is this even possible??) they should have to give you a full refund on any labor at the least, and I would be filing a suit in small claims court for the cost of fixing their fuck up.

The bright side is that at least now you know 2 things.
1. What is wrong with your car.
2. Who can fix it.

There is no excuse for screwing up a cam install to this magnitude, period. Even the smallest amount of care and attention to detail by the insallation mechanic would prevent this. I would think that the cams would be drilled in an idiot proof fashion to prevent just this thing, but maybe not. I gues given the old addage that nothing is idiot proof, given a sufficiently talented idiot comes to play.

On another note about Evolution dynamics. There are a couple of Evo's running around Houston that have had to have work and tunes re done after them. I would put these guys on the list with Turbochargers.com of shops to avoid at all cost.

Fortunately for us down here, Cobb is only a few hours away, and MDR performance in Kemah, while extremely small, knows what they are doing.

I didn't say the were installed in reverse just off a few teeth that is making close and open at right times to get timed right.

:+1:
If it turns out to be the cams installed in the reversed (how is this even possible??) they should have to give you a full refund on any labor at the least, and I would be filing a suit in small claims court for the cost of fixing their fuck up.

The bright side is that at least now you know 2 things.
1. What is wrong with your car.
2. Who can fix it.

There is no excuse for screwing up a cam install to this magnitude, period. Even the smallest amount of care and attention to detail by the insallation mechanic would prevent this. I would think that the cams would be drilled in an idiot proof fashion to prevent just this thing, but maybe not. I gues given the old addage that nothing is idiot proof, given a sufficiently talented idiot comes to play.

On another note about Evolution dynamics. There are a couple of Evo's running around Houston that have had to have work and tunes re done after them. I would put these guys on the list with Turbochargers.com of shops to avoid at all cost.

Fortunately for us down here, Cobb is only a few hours away, and MDR performance in Kemah, while extremely small, knows what they are doing.

I dont think what he is describing is that the cams are upside down or intake and exhaust are swapped. To me it makes more sense that they would be degress off on the timing chain. All it takes is being a little off when you release the tensioner to throw the lobes out of whack.

For anyone thinking about doing cams Ill have a "How To" out in the next month or so. They arent that diffacult to do and when you do it yourself you know its done right.

if im kevin i will refund the install and tune.. but they are really good with 8 or 9 but not proven with x, another bright side dca bring that wide ams o2 downpipe with you to cobb when you come back whenever.

I dont think what he is describing is that the cams are upside down or intake and exhaust are swapped. To me it makes more sense that they would be degress off on the timing chain. All it takes is being a little off when you release the tensioner to throw the lobes out of whack.

For anyone thinking about doing cams Ill have a "How To" out in the next month or so. They arent that diffacult to do and when you do it yourself you know its done right.
True. Lining up the dots and dashes on a multiple cam set up is much more plausible and easy to screw up than people think. One tooth or even more off can look dead on just by viewing it from an off angle. Hopefully whatever funk seems to have hovered over them (Evo Dynamics) recently moves on soon. For the number of Evo's and people down here, the number of shops we can trust is really small. Having it get one smaller doesn't do anyone any favors.

Man that sucks. I guess that explains why you werent happy with how the car felt after the tune. Hope it all gets worked out for you

True. Lining up the dots and dashes on a multiple cam set up is much more plausible and easy to screw up than people think. One tooth or even more off can look dead on just by viewing it from an off angle. Hopefully whatever funk seems to have hovered over them (Evo Dynamics) recently moves on soon. For the number of Evo's and people down here, the number of shops we can trust is really small. Having it get one smaller doesn't do anyone any favors.

These cars are completely different than the Evos of earlier generations and with the new motor and features there are going to be growing pains with just about any tuner shop. As far as installing cams goes there is one special tool requiered for holding the tensioner in place while install is being done. Right now I am working on making a version of this so when I do my write up people can make one of their own for doing their own install flawlessly. I will also be giving great detail in it on what to look for after you release the tensioner to ensure you are correctly aligned so you wont have issues.

Sandman - I appluad your restraint and approach in this matter but I also hope that if there is infact an issue with the install you persue compensation for everything. Lost time isnt something you can get back but the $ you spent on services you didnt properly recieve is. Because if they in fact are set wrong someone had to have known when tuning and its pretty easy to tell before you bolt everything back together.

http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/2009/01/assets/images/timing-chain-555.jpg

The time thing is the big issue for me. It's not so easy to get a day to drive 3 hours to have thing fixed and then back. The cost is the issue as well though. 100 dollars round trip for gas and over 500 for cams and install originally. If I don't let ED fix or look at the cams I'll be charged another 200 for cobb to adjust it, which I will probably do.

sucks to hear man all this man. good luck the rest of the way, and its reasons like this that I wont let anyone but cobb touch my car anymore. I checked out both shops, and went with who I found to be highly professional and knowledgeable about MY car, not the 8 or 9.

I applaud your restraint, but if I were you Kevin would be refunding me quite a bit of $$. He cannot afford to lose the support the forums give him, and this is a major black eye if they dont set things right.

speedfreak was lucky to have his done right..by the same shop.http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22322&highlight=kelford+cams

That sucks, hope to hear the exact diagnosis when you get it all up and running. At least you know there IS an issue and you're not just making crappy power for no reason at all. Once you get it all worked out I'm sure the awesome power you're making will make you feel much better. :)

Sucks to be out money but like I always say when I have unexpected expenditures: "The money will always be back..."

speedfreak was lucky to have his done right..by the same shop.http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22322&highlight=kelford+cams

Maybe... Sandman did know he lost 60whp until he dyno'd his car and he had a turbo. SpeedFreak is still running the stock so he may be running the same power. No way to tell without putting the car on a dyno.

Oh my!!!! WOW!!! I had some work done by evodynamics awhile back on my X and I wasn't 100% satisfied either and I thought it was just me. I am so glad you posted this, I am going to cobb from now on for sure when I get my cams and turbo. Basically the work I had done there was a few critical bolts that were loose and just finger tight or loose whichever way you want to look at it. They did my clutch install and one of the big ones, like sandman, I have a long drive to get home, well the trans drain plug was one of the finger tight bolts, trans fluid all over the place when I got home, also dp bolt loose, and front o2 sensor loose to, and transfer case drain plug loose too, just to name a few.

I am not about flaming either all in all they did a good job, but when you pay the money you do for install you should get perfect results and not one like me and dcasandman have gotten.

Dear god, please let everything work out on my cam install.

Maybe its the Kelford cams? You are not the first one to install the Kelford stage 1 cams and lose power. maybe EvoD can reinstall your stock cams and do a retune for free or for a low price, i mean thats what i would do if i had a shop and an unhappy loyal customer.

I have taken the day off of trying to get stuff resolved. It's Sunday and everyone should have a day off. I will probably talk to ED tomorrow if I can get out of work in time. If I can just get them to anty up for cobb to fix any of the install issues I'll be happy. To be honest I really hope it is the cams so at least there is a fixable issue. I just want my 380+whp.

Maybe its the Kelford cams? You are not the first one to install the Kelford stage 1 cams and lose power. maybe EvoD can reinstall your stock cams and do a retune for free or for a low price, i mean thats what i would do if i had a shop and an unhappy loyal customer.

What others are you referring to? I have seen some that have produced gains, but where I saw them, I have no clue. It was when they first started getting installed on peoples' cars.
Mine is there right now about to get the kelford stage 2 cams. I'm hoping everything will work out on mine. My car's been down long enough.

I think it was Turbotrix i can find the link and PM to you do not want to clutter the OP's thread. They installed the stage 1 cams on their car and lost power i know that for sure.

Maybe its the Kelford cams? You are not the first one to install the Kelford stage 1 cams and lose power. maybe EvoD can reinstall your stock cams and do a retune for free or for a low price, i mean thats what i would do if i had a shop and an unhappy loyal customer.

Im pretty sure Im not the first to install the kelfords. Unless it is a faulty cam itself. I guess your theory is possible, but I would doubt kelfords would lose power. They pretty much cut every ones cams for them.

I think it was Turbotrix i can find the link and PM to you do not want to clutter the OP's thread. They installed the stage 1 cams on their car and lost power i know that for sure.

I discussed this with a couple locals and we can't figure out how a set of cams would kill around 100 hp from a car w/o them being installed incorrectly or the shop doing the baseline manipulating the dyno to show bigger gains later. I think it would be the first one however.

Jason, sure sent it to me.

Im pretty sure Im not the first to install the kelfords. Unless it is a faulty cam itself. I guess your theory is possible, but I would doubt kelfords would lose power. They pretty much cut every ones cams for them.


Ya i went back and i was wrong sorry. Turbotrix did lose 1 hp but gained like 25tq to the stock cams and the kelfords where not tuned. So disregard my old posts. So something has to be up with your install, because that doesnt make sense for cams more aggresive to make less power stock.

Ya i went back and i was wrong sorry. Turbotrix did lose 1 hp but gained like 25tq to the stock cams and the kelfords where not tuned. So disregard my old posts. So something has to be up with your install, because that doesnt make sense for cams more aggresive to make less power stock.

Were these on stage 1 or stage 2 kelfords?

I discussed this with a couple locals and we can't figure out how a set of cams would kill around 100 hp from a car w/o them being installed incorrectly or the shop doing the baseline manipulating the dyno to show bigger gains later. I think it would be the first one however.

Jason, sure sent it to me.

There is something wrong whether it be the cams or not. Pre installs 340. Post install less than 280, and Cobb couldn't improve on it much do to technical or mechanical issue. They felt the cams were off by 2-3 teeth possibly. They really dis not gain anything from this cause the car runs smoother now, but still makes crap for power.

Were these on stage 1 or stage 2 kelfords?

Stage 1, here is the links i was referring to. http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-x-dyno-results/402523-evo-x-kelford-stage-1-cam-test.html

http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-x-dyno-results/399617-turbotrix-evo-x-376whp-336ft-lbs.html

See on Feb 11th they made 376whp/336ft-lbs @23psi no cams.
On Feb 24th with Kelford Stage 1 they made 356whp/344ft-lbs not tuned, someone tell me im wrong lol.

Stage 1, here is the links i was referring to. http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-x-dyno-results/402523-evo-x-kelford-stage-1-cam-test.html

http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-x-dyno-results/399617-turbotrix-evo-x-376whp-336ft-lbs.html

See on Feb 11th they made 376whp/336ft-lbs @23psi no cams.
On Feb 24th with Kelford Stage 1 they made 356whp/344ft-lbs not tuned, someone tell me im wrong lol.

Wouldn't they need to tune them to get the benefits from them?

Wouldn't they need to tune them to get the benefits from them?

Ya i mean they would, but would they make more then 376hp? it did make more tq.

If that is untuned I would probably expect a drop since things are optimized.

Dear god, please let everything work out on my cam install.

everything went fine on my install. im sure your will to. everyone makes mistakes. it how someone chooses to fix them that sets them apart from the good and bad shops

Im so sorry to hear this Chris. That is terrible! I knew something was wrong when you werent extremely enthusiastic. Good luck in getting this fixed im sure she'll be running good in no time

I dont think what he is describing is that the cams are upside down or intake and exhaust are swapped. To me it makes more sense that they would be degress off on the timing chain. All it takes is being a little off when you release the tensioner to throw the lobes out of whack.

For anyone thinking about doing cams Ill have a "How To" out in the next month or so. They arent that diffacult to do and when you do it yourself you know its done right.

Nice man. can't wait for that how to on this motor. :) :bowlol::bowlol::bowlol::bowlol:

sorry to hear I hope everything will turn out good and perfect!
this is off the topic but how much did they charge you for cam install? I think you should ask them for some kinda of compensation for this trouble!

Sorry to hear mate. I hope the Shop comes to the party and sorts you out. keep us updated. Keep the faith, your 380WHP will come!

If you saw how pissed the wife is about another day wasted down there you would nor see much brighter side right now. Especially after taking an entire vacation around these installs.


I can relate to that....hope it all gets worked out man.

You can get a new wife, don't sweat it. Its easier to find a wife than a good shop to work on your car. I promise.

You can get a new wife, don't sweat it. Its easier to find a wife than a good shop to work on your car. I promise.

Not cheaper.

You can get a new wife, don't sweat it. Its easier to find a wife than a good shop to work on your car. I promise.

My wife is great, and she has every reason to be pissed about a completely wasted day were nothing got done, because of an install issue. It's a major pain in the ass to her when I already work a shit load and take another day away to get something worked on that 1 should not need and 2 it's still broke. Oh and wife supported and put me through school, takes amazing care of my girls. She could take everything. I'd end up living at home with my dad lol.

I think Cobb will be able fix it and Calvin will do his magic. it just sucks to drive 2hours again here.

Dude that sucks im guessing the guys at evo dynamics are not very good mechanics!! GL i hope everything works out. I think you should have brought your car to jms racing here in san antonio they are very good mechanics and good tuners.

Do you guys think it may be possible that I could have bent some valves or is that something that I would definitely hear or feel?

Do you guys think it may be possible that I could have bent some valves or is that something that I would definitely hear or feel?

Wouldn't that be a coincidence? I think you would be able to tell. Was there a compression test performed? I think you idle would be different too.

^Um is that an answer??

^Um is that an answer??

I'm on my Droid and it was bouncy lol

Do you guys think it may be possible that I could have bent some valves or is that something that I would definitely hear or feel?

You would know. If you bent the valves because of contact with the pistons, I think the pistons would have likely sheared the valves. Same sort of situation when you lose your timing belt under acceleration.

If a valve was bent you would know for sure

You would know. If you bent the valves because of contact with the pistons, I think the pistons would have likely sheared the valves. Same sort of situation when you lose your timing belt under acceleration.

Timing belt?

Sorry, timing chain.

Do you guys think it may be possible that I could have bent some valves or is that something that I would definitely hear or feel?

I can say prepare your self when they open it, and if there is something more you have to get after ED. That will be to much for you.

You would know. If you bent the valves because of contact with the pistons, I think the pistons would have likely sheared the valves. Same sort of situation when you lose your timing belt under acceleration.


valves when they hit the piston don't shear. they just bend slightly. if you have ANY bent valves, you'll get 0 compression in the cylinder, and the car will sound like a subaru or a lawnmower at idle, and it will run like complete ass at WOT (making 300 is not bent valve territory). you would DEFINATELY know if it were bent valves. also, belt valves usually come in packs, not just one. so if the cam were way off and valves were bent, you wouldn't have been driving it home. however, if the cam is in time, and you money shifted it or over revved it, you can float a spring which can cause valve to piston contact.

wow, there is a lot of hate in here i just got back from vacation and this is never a good thing to see.


to address the issues at hand, first everyone makes mistakes. we had to fix a X motor cobb melted a piston in with a protune. we fixed a oil drain line poorly installed from JMS (leaking, and they crossthreaded the oilpan bolt). is it ever a good thing to make mistakes? absolutely not, but it happens to everyone as i just pointed out. yes, its possible that the cam could be a few teeth off (it can't be backwards, inside out, or swapped... the cams are different, and wont fit in the wrong position, and the car certainly wouldn't run if they were swapped. there are dowel pins keeping it from being in the wrong position from the gear). we triple check the timing before buttoning things up, so however unlikely it is the timing is off, it is possible. obivously we will fix it (and if there is any other damage as a result of the install), free of charge. before anything can be done further though, i need to see the car and see what is wrong with it.

since cobb had the car for 9 hours, i can only assume they checked for boost leaks correct? were there any? i can also assume they checked the compression and actually physically checked the timing as well? from the way i read this thread, it sounds like they had the car for 9 hours on the dyno but didn't actually verify by checking the timing (which would be the obvious thing to do if you think it is wrong), or anything else for that matter. i can only help as much as i know whats wrong with it.

because it seems chris is not the only one happy with their tune, we are going to make some changes with the way we handle X's. first, all the tunes will be done on a dyno only. this does mean it costs more (i'll work on that tonight), and it will be harder to schedule, but at least people can leave knowing the results (and we definately wont have any question as to if it was like that when we tuned it, or if it is something that has developed after the fact, i.e. boost leaks). also, because i have far more experience then richard at tuning and diagnosing problems (my specialty is 8/9, but i have done X's as well), i will be working with richard on each and every X tune until i feel satisfied we have all these issues resolved. for people not happy with their results on X's we will retune them for free on steve kans dyno. however, if issues such as boost leaks, or installs from other people/shops arise, i will have to charge for that stuff to get resolved. also, if we tuned you for stock turbo and you now have a 35r, obviously i'm not going to tune it for free.

i strive to make everyone happy, and if your not happy please speak up when i'm working on the car/tuning the car. some people will certainly have unreal expectations with power output, and others will have far better results then they ever expected. but as long as i know the car left running well and your happy, then everyone is happy. especially for the guys who live far away, we always preffer to drive the car around for 10-15 miles to make sure there are no leaks, CELs, rattles, loose anything so that you don't have to make a trip back.

hope this puts some people at ease, and if you have any questions contact me directly 817-776-2170 (and i still have like 20 phone calls to make to people from over my vacation, but i'm catching up).

valves when they hit the piston don't shear. they just bend slightly. if you have ANY bent valves, you'll get 0 compression in the cylinder, and the car will sound like a subaru or a lawnmower at idle, and it will run like complete ass at WOT (making 300 is not bent valve territory). you would DEFINATELY know if it were bent valves. also, belt valves usually come in packs, not just one. so if the cam were way off and valves were bent, you wouldn't have been driving it home. however, if the cam is in time, and you money shifted it or over revved it, you can float a spring which can cause valve to piston contact.

On an overrev or misshift, how many valves do you think could be damaged?

Do you guys think it may be possible that I could have bent some valves or is that something that I would definitely hear or feel?

It sounds like your cam is off by 1 or 2 teeth. a tuner on another forum had the exact same experience with another car (timing resulted in the opposite result expected). re-installing the cam properly fixed the problem and they were off to the races and making good power. I'd get it done sooner rather than later (i.e. ASAP), and have the original shop do the job right and for free. Remember that in the end it's people doing the work people make mistakes, even if they are good at what they do. That said, however, you shouldn't have to pay a penny for them to fix it.

On an overrev or misshift, how many valves do you think could be damaged?


it varys. i've seen stock valve springs break on evo 8's before. there were 3 broken springs (and subsequently 3 broken valves). when its floating valves typically it comes in pairs, so 2-4-6. i haven't seen more then 6 broken valves at once on an overrev. its usually the intake valves to bend first, but it happens to both.

lodifreefly, thats exactly what we are offering to do. we will fix it free of charge, if indeed that is what the issue is.

Thx for the input guys. ED already are going to try to fit me in Dec. 18th. Then Cobb is going to retune it on the 19th. Wish me Luck.

Hopefully you can get everything worked out where you want it. You pay good money and hell even I expect Evo X's to run like they should coming out of a shop.

Thx for the input guys. ED already are going to try to fit me in Oct 18th. Then Cobb is going to retune it on the 19th. Wish me Luck.

I take it you meant December 18th and 19th as i doubt you meant waiting almost a year. ;)

wow, there is a lot of hate in here i just got back from vacation and this is never a good thing to see.


to address the issues at hand, first everyone makes mistakes. we had to fix a X motor cobb melted a piston in with a protune. we fixed a oil drain line poorly installed from JMS (leaking, and they crossthreaded the oilpan bolt). is it ever a good thing to make mistakes? absolutely not, but it happens to everyone as i just pointed out. yes, its possible that the cam could be a few teeth off (it can't be backwards, inside out, or swapped... the cams are different, and wont fit in the wrong position, and the car certainly wouldn't run if they were swapped. there are dowel pins keeping it from being in the wrong position from the gear). we triple check the timing before buttoning things up, so however unlikely it is the timing is off, it is possible. obivously we will fix it (and if there is any other damage as a result of the install), free of charge. before anything can be done further though, i need to see the car and see what is wrong with it.

since cobb had the car for 9 hours, i can only assume they checked for boost leaks correct? were there any? i can also assume they checked the compression and actually physically checked the timing as well? from the way i read this thread, it sounds like they had the car for 9 hours on the dyno but didn't actually verify by checking the timing (which would be the obvious thing to do if you think it is wrong), or anything else for that matter. i can only help as much as i know whats wrong with it.

because it seems chris is not the only one happy with their tune, we are going to make some changes with the way we handle X's. first, all the tunes will be done on a dyno only. this does mean it costs more (i'll work on that tonight), and it will be harder to schedule, but at least people can leave knowing the results (and we definately wont have any question as to if it was like that when we tuned it, or if it is something that has developed after the fact, i.e. boost leaks). also, because i have far more experience then richard at tuning and diagnosing problems (my specialty is 8/9, but i have done X's as well), i will be working with richard on each and every X tune until i feel satisfied we have all these issues resolved. for people not happy with their results on X's we will retune them for free on steve kans dyno. however, if issues such as boost leaks, or installs from other people/shops arise, i will have to charge for that stuff to get resolved. also, if we tuned you for stock turbo and you now have a 35r, obviously i'm not going to tune it for free.

i strive to make everyone happy, and if your not happy please speak up when i'm working on the car/tuning the car. some people will certainly have unreal expectations with power output, and others will have far better results then they ever expected. but as long as i know the car left running well and your happy, then everyone is happy. especially for the guys who live far away, we always preffer to drive the car around for 10-15 miles to make sure there are no leaks, CELs, rattles, loose anything so that you don't have to make a trip back.

hope this puts some people at ease, and if you have any questions contact me directly 817-776-2170 (and i still have like 20 phone calls to make to people from over my vacation, but i'm catching up).

Our spam filter was filtering this post, and it is relevant to this thread, so bump :)

thanks TRUSTcompany. i posted it once and it deleted everything when it asked for me to log in again. so i re-wrote it as best as i could and posted it again.

thanks TRUSTcompany. i posted it once and it deleted everything when it asked for me to log in again. so i re-wrote it as best as i could and posted it again.

you probably didn't get the cams wrong either .. coz even off by a tooth you'll throw a CEL ;)

but hey .. thats what the ECU say .. not me :p

Well said kevin. You guys have never done me wrong from my point of view and if you have, you have always helped me out with any issues. Plus, helping out with my car when I can't be there to get it around and do this and that with it, is also respectable. You guys have me as a customer. I just really wanted the ap again, so I'm going to that. I'm glad you guys got on here.

thanks TRUSTcompany. i posted it once and it deleted everything when it asked for me to log in again. so i re-wrote it as best as i could and posted it again.

Thx, Kevin for the response, and Richard has been very nice. I will say Im not happy with my results that's why I took the car to get dynoed as well as multiple limp modes in a short amount of time. Cobb is the only place I know in the area, and the car was only worked on for 5-6hours as they were just fitting me in that day. I have no ill feeling towards the shop, and you guys have said you would fix everything. You have to understand the frustration to drive down on vacation and end up leaving with the car worse than when you arrived. It's hard enough for me to get a week off much less come down spur of the moment. I know shops make mistakes as you can read tons of them on every forum. That is why I made this thread the way I did to try to stay away from a flame fest as I do not think it is waranted here.

you probably didn't get the cams wrong either .. coz even off by a tooth you'll throw a CEL ;)

but hey .. thats what the ECU say .. not me :p

I have gotten multiple P0300 codes after cam install. Never threw a code while I was there and I put around 40 miles on the car before I left. It did throw a code the day after I got home though. Texted Richard about it imediately as well as asking for virtual dyno.

hey chris, richard and i discussed options last night. he should send you a text today about it. we really do want to help you out more then just fixing the issue but we will leave it private ;). especially for people like you who have to come way out of their way sometimes we(shops in general), have to do more then whats asked.

hey chris, richard and i discussed options last night. he should send you a text today about it. we really do want to help you out more then just fixing the issue but we will leave it private ;). especially for people like you who have to come way out of their way sometimes we(shops in general), have to do more then whats asked.

You have a good attitude about this, kudos to you.

You have a good attitude about this, kudos to you.

That's why I tried to keep all the hate down. These are good guys.

That's why I tried to keep all the hate down. These are good guys.

I hear ya, Im just used to hearing from the tuners who act like what they do is magic and they are doing you a favor by taking your money. :ghey:

^ The reason I went there was all the great reviews from customers. I did not read a bad review.

Let us know of any updates man, i hope everything works out perfect!!

Right now just hoping it something that can be fixed easily cause I really don't have the option to leave the car down there.

Our spam filter was filtering this post, and it is relevant to this thread, so bump :)

:yeahthat:

Meet up in the Arbuckles and swap cars for a couple days with Richard :D

Good luck Chris.

Meet up in the Arbuckles and swap cars for a couple days with Richard :D

I've kissed the wife's ass enough to come down the 18-19th. Hopefully it can be resolved in that time frame.

Man I dislike reading about the problems that people are having with their X's, but yet its a must to read to get knowledge of possible problems I could have when I get my X.

Hope you get that X running strong the way it should be.

Man I dislike reading about the problems that people are having with their X's, but yet its a must to read to get knowledge of possible problems I could have when I get my X.

Hope you get that X running strong the way it should be.

I did not expect this one, but I have always expected to have a glitch with modding at some point. I knew it was coming at some point. I just figured it would be my engine going boom from boost or something though.