Aight... so the mod process is about to begin...
Friday - 02/15/2008 - Break in on the dyno, to see what kind of platform we have to work with.. RRE Dyna Pack
Tuesday - 02/19/2008 - Drop off the car at Road Race Engineering to get some mods on the car.

Baseline dyno was pretty good.
I'm going to post some baseline dynos.. and then some of messing with the boost, running open filter, running cone filter... with afr's and psi's

First we have.... GOOD OL' BASELINE - 100% STOCK :
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/eg6typer/EVO%20X%20DYNO/baseline.jpg
Pretty nice curve except for that section in between 5000-5500 RPM...
Now we have the BASELINE of the BOOST - 100% STOCK
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/eg6typer/EVO%20X%20DYNO/baseline-boost.jpg
Boost starts out good, but then drops down pretty low!
Next we have the Torque and AFR #'s - 100% STOCK :
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/eg6typer/EVO%20X%20DYNO/baseline-boost-afr.jpg
Torque seems fairly decent for being 100% stock. AFR's.. ALL OVER THE BOARD! and extremely rich!

________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________
Now this is where the fun begins... KINDA!
I axe'd Mike W... let's pull the filter off... and crank that boost up!... and the results... - NO FILTER, MBC set to 23psi, but spikes to 25psi
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/eg6typer/EVO%20X%20DYNO/mbc-filter-no20filter.jpg
Ok... so the "light blue" and the "yellow" run... are with the MBC set to 23psi WITH NO FILTER
The "Dark Blue", "Red", and "Purple" runs... are with the MBC set to 23psi WITH A CONE FILTER
Here you can see what the boost starts at, and finishs at for all 5 runs, overlayed.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/eg6typer/EVO%20X%20DYNO/mbc-filter-no20filter-boost.jpg
Ok... so the "light blue" and the "yellow" run... are with the MBC set to 23psi WITH NO FILTER
The "Dark Blue", "Red", and "Purple" runs... are with the MBC set to 23psi WITH A CONE FILTER

And last but not least... the AFR and Torque figures
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/eg6typer/EVO%20X%20DYNO/mbc-filter-no20filter-afr.jpg
Ok... so the "light blue" and the "yellow" run... are with the MBC set to 23psi WITH NO FILTER
The "Dark Blue", "Red", and "Purple" runs... are with the MBC set to 23psi WITH A CONE FILTER

If you can get your hands on a MAF pipe adaptor, you'll probably lean out considerably more and make more power :thumpup: .. you no longer have to worry about Karmann now :D

Something new .. didn't know the cone filter is still worse off than no filter :coffee:

What sort of mods are RoadRace adding to your beast?

Interesting how much of a power difference there is without an air filter.

When you had a cone filter, how was it installed?

What sort of mods are RoadRace adding to your beast?

RR is going to add pretty much all the mods you see from Turbo Trix and AMS and AGP.


Interesting how much of a power difference there is without an air filter.

When you had a cone filter, how was it installed?

The cone was installed right after the MAF, it actually fits right on the maf.

good to see, i wanted to get a stealth exhaust from them but they never got back to me.

im waiting to see what they develope before i purchase items. i just want mods come april.

good to see, i wanted to get a stealth exhaust from them but they never got back to me.

im waiting to see what they develope before i purchase items. i just want mods come april.

RRE is ALWAYS super busy, easiest way to get ahold of Mike W is email or after 5pm m-f call the shop.

They can make your stealth exhaust about anyway you want it.
I'll keep you updated. As my mods will probably be the bench mark for the following production parts.

-Chris

(removed email address -Dino)

yeah, i know they always have shit going on, so i dont hold it against them. thats why im playing the waiting game, i wish i had time to stop by and do what youve done, but i knew eventually one of us socal x owners would hop in there and get the ball rolling.

im thinking of going:
mbc
upper ic pipe
intake pipe (with cone or stock box, either way)
and high flow cat back with a preference on dual to keep it stock looking (since there doesnt seem to be a need to change the stock down pipe)


so im gonna keep an eye on what you have going.

yeah, i know they always have shit going on, so i dont hold it against them. thats why im playing the waiting game, i wish i had time to stop by and do what youve done, but i knew eventually one of us socal x owners would hop in there and get the ball rolling.

im thinking of going:
mbc
upper ic pipe
intake pipe (with cone or stock box, either way)
and high flow cat back with a preference on dual to keep it stock looking (since there doesnt seem to be a need to change the stock down pipe)


so im gonna keep an eye on what you have going.

Yep, I hear you.

Your probably going to need an AEM FIC to keep the AFR leaner to make power, because the car runs extremely rich, and the MBC clears a little of it up. The intake is a HUGE restriction on the car, mainly the filter.
as far as exhausts go, they can make it how ever you'd like, I'd personally say go and have your car baselined, so you can see what you need to improve on.. every car is different. Then start upgrading from there.

The down pipe will only need to be changed if you plan on going bigger then factory turbo, or if you want to add a AFR wide band O2 sensor.

I opted to have a custom one built, with the o2 bung in it, because I am going with the ZT2 package from Zeitronix.

-Chris

where are you gonna mount the zetronix?
i had one in my 8. they only thing i hated about it was that the egt probe died on me about once a year (35-40k miles).

im gonna hold off on a turbo, id rather do robispec kw's, aem and the basic bolt ons for now in hope of getting near 375whp. i also want to see what happens when everyone figures out how to ecu tune. ill wait the turbo game out and see what suits me best next year.

when i talked to mike last he said hed need the car for two days, which i just cant do currently. so i gotta wait til parts are more produced and less custom.

So whats your hope for HP figures after they are done! (Good on you for going for it!)

I'm not really "hoping" for anything really... whatever the car puts down, I will be happy with. I am pleased so far with the gains it's made while it's been at the shop so far.

-Chris

Yep, I hear you.

Your probably going to need an AEM FIC to keep the AFR leaner to make power, because the car runs extremely rich, and the MBC clears a little of it up. The intake is a HUGE restriction on the car, mainly the filter.
as far as exhausts go, they can make it how ever you'd like, I'd personally say go and have your car baselined, so you can see what you need to improve on.. every car is different. Then start upgrading from there.

The down pipe will only need to be changed if you plan on going bigger then factory turbo, or if you want to add a AFR wide band O2 sensor.

I opted to have a custom one built, with the o2 bung in it, because I am going with the ZT2 package from Zeitronix.

-Chris

It's not a huge restriction. The car is rich and the intake makes it lean. That's where the power is coming from. It's not like the car has the proper A/F ratios and you replace the intake and then get mad power.

-M

Oh i'm sorry, that's right, you've worked on an EVO X and you've dyno'd one right Boostez? or you own one and you know from first hand experience? Right?

Oh i'm sorry, that's right, you've worked on an EVO X and you've dyno'd one right Boostez? or you own one and you know from first hand experience? Right?

Not trying to be a smart-ass, just stating the facts. Restriction means a design that doesn't allow good flow. The intake isn't small in diameter nor does it have bends that would restrict flow.

Follow AMS, AGP, Vivid, and Buschur's threads for where I get my statements from. The old 8/9s had pretty good intakes (aside from the 90 degree bend before the MAF). Why would the X be any different.

I agree with Boostez here. We are definitely picking up power from replacing the intake, but I wouldn't consider the stock intake setup restrictive by any means. You can look up the snorkel and see the filter after all :) I think the filter itself may be low flow, and the other side of the equation is how the computer is interpreting the air coming into the car. If the MAF is getting wild and crazy readings, we may have some issues later on, like we did with the VIII. I know for certain that the stock VIII intake was far easier to tune and more reliable then any after market intake. You could just drop a K&N air filter in, and your MAF readings were still pretty much linear.

Not trying to be a smart-ass, just stating the facts. Restriction means a design that doesn't allow good flow. The intake isn't small in diameter nor does it have bends that would restrict flow.

Follow AMS, AGP, Vivid, and Buschur's threads for where I get my statements from. The old 8/9s had pretty good intakes (aside from the 90 degree bend before the MAF). Why would the X be any different.

Not trying to say your a smart ass at all.

I've followed all of the above threads, and EVERYONE EXCEPT for Buschur Racing has designed a new intake maf pipe. Everyone has had gains... so in saying that, don't you think there has to be some restriction? And the new, yes NEW MAF is a blow through type, unlike the 8,9 mafs. so you can get REALLY creative on building the maf pipe. I'll show you the new maf pipe that RRE designed for my EVO X. and I can almost 110% guarantee there will be gains.

-Chris

Not trying to say your a smart ass at all.

I've followed all of the above threads, and EVERYONE EXCEPT for Buschur Racing has designed a new intake maf pipe. Everyone has had gains... so in saying that, don't you think there has to be some restriction? And the new, yes NEW MAF is a blow through type, unlike the 8,9 mafs. so you can get REALLY creative on building the maf pipe. I'll show you the new maf pipe that RRE designed for my EVO X. and I can almost 110% guarantee there will be gains.

-Chris

I'm sure you will get an increase in whp, but that's not what I meant.

I'm saying that the intake isn't "restrictive" in that airflow isn't hindered. To test this, you'd have to tune the car on the stock intake to a certain AFR (say, 11.5:1). Then replace the stock MAF pipe with an aftermarket MAF pipe with the AFRs staying the same. Then dyno the car. I can guarantee you that you won't get more then 10whp from it - if that. It's the same as replacing the catback exhaust and getting only 18-20whp increase (as Buschur did).

In Buschur's defense, I was one of the customers that have a VERY sensitive MAF. When I bought Buschur's MAF pipe kit, my car didn't run correctly. It played havoc with the MAF sensor. I think Buschur would rather avoid this altogether as the gains wouldn't be worth it (remember, I mean "restrictive" gains not leaning out the mixture which you could do in other ways).

I'm sure you will get an increase in whp, but that's not what I meant.

I'm saying that the intake isn't "restrictive" in that airflow isn't hindered. To test this, you'd have to tune the car on the stock intake to a certain AFR (say, 11.5:1). Then replace the stock MAF pipe with an aftermarket MAF pipe with the AFRs staying the same. Then dyno the car. I can guarantee you that you won't get more then 10whp from it - if that. It's the same as replacing the catback exhaust and getting only 18-20whp increase (as Buschur did).

In Buschur's defense, I was one of the customers that have a VERY sensitive MAF. When I bought Buschur's MAF pipe kit, my car didn't run correctly. It played havoc with the MAF sensor. I think Buschur would rather avoid this altogether as the gains wouldn't be worth it (remember, I mean "restrictive" gains not leaning out the mixture which you could do in other ways).


Ahh, Ok, I got you now. See, I am going for max whp on the stock turbo...so I am trying to maximize the flow in and out of the motor.
and after this is done, I am waiting for the EMS and then a full turbo kit.

I used to have Buschur's Maf Pipe and intake kit on my 8, along with his Intercooler, UICP, TBE ect... my 8 was pretty damn Buschur, lol.

And Airflow is hindered in the fact that with the stock plastic intake being swapped, there is, on a stock to stock basis, a + - 7 - 10whp gain in the top end, with out a tune. and with a tune, possibly more. I am all for it, if the intake is only costing me $150-$200.00

-Chris

:thumbup:

Ahh, Ok, I got you now. See, I am going for max whp on the stock turbo...so I am trying to maximize the flow in and out of the motor.
and after this is done, I am waiting for the EMS and then a full turbo kit.

I used to have Buschur's Maf Pipe and intake kit on my 8, along with his Intercooler, UICP, TBE ect... my 8 was pretty damn Buschur, lol.

And Airflow is hindered in the fact that with the stock plastic intake being swapped, there is, on a stock to stock basis, a + - 7 - 10whp gain in the top end, with out a tune. and with a tune, possibly more. I am all for it, if the intake is only costing me $150-$200.00

-Chris

The power gain from changing the MAF pipe (I'm referring to the plastic pipe that the MAF attaches to) with an increase in diameter basically changes the calculation of the airflow through the hotwire MAF ;) .. hence the leaner fuelling and natural increase in power ..

The intake pipe may not be restrictive .. but it's definitely turbulent :tumbleweed: .. you will net that 10-15hp increase from the change in pipe .. but you'll net more for now with the change in the MAF adaptor pipe (due to the AF change)

:hititsign:

Not trying to say your a smart ass at all.

I've followed all of the above threads, and EVERYONE EXCEPT for Buschur Racing has designed a new intake maf pipe. Everyone has had gains... so in saying that, don't you think there has to be some restriction? And the new, yes NEW MAF is a blow through type, unlike the 8,9 mafs. so you can get REALLY creative on building the maf pipe. I'll show you the new maf pipe that RRE designed for my EVO X. and I can almost 110% guarantee there will be gains.

-Chris

Can you post a close of pic of the MAF element?

Yeah, next time I go to RRE, I will, I was there last night, but didn't think to snap any pics of the new MAF.

The power gain from changing the MAF pipe (I'm referring to the plastic pipe that the MAF attaches to) with an increase in diameter basically changes the calculation of the airflow through the hotwire MAF ;) .. hence the leaner fuelling and natural increase in power ..

The intake pipe may not be restrictive .. but it's definitely turbulent :tumbleweed: .. you will net that 10-15hp increase from the change in pipe .. but you'll net more for now with the change in the MAF adaptor pipe (due to the AF change)

:hititsign:

I've seen that one. this filter here (ARC) was the first I EVER saw more whp with it on then just running an open turbo (on big turbo setups). but look how its designed. Kinda like that "tornado" idea. ;)

http://i30.tinypic.com/23ut1n9.jpg


It lost 9-12whp on a mustang dyno when removed. :wtfsign: But you always follow the gains so I'n Evopowa's case he's moving in the right direction. :thumbup:

Turbulent insn't better in my opinion. Not that we know how the intakes are changing the MAF signal right now, but I know with the VIII, the signal got so turbulent, that it was very difficult to do a consistent tune. This was due to the issues we had with a MAF curve that wasnt linear due to all the turbulent air created by the intake. On the older cars, this caused the Evo to run very lean on occasion. However, on the X, we are so rich already, it has the opposite affect of bringing us closer to what we consider ideal.

The funny thing is no one really knows what a safe AFR is yet for the X. It may be in 10's, or it could be leaner. We wont know until someone gets some serious logging done with the ECU, and starts playing with it.

i'm thinking the ideal would be 10.5 to 10.9

Turbulent insn't better in my opinion. Not that we know how the intakes are changing the MAF signal right now, but I know with the VIII, the signal got so turbulent, that it was very difficult to do a consistent tune. This was due to the issues we had with a MAF curve that wasnt linear due to all the turbulent air created by the intake.

Argeed. I was just trying to show how a simple intake design reducing turbulence, or at least changing airflow characteristics qualitativly rather than quanatativly can have a major factor in whp. The car pictured was running a hydra ems (subie) so there was no maf, however the only answer anyone at the dyno could rationalize to why it made more power was the characteristic of the airflow.
Ofcourse we left the intake filter on the rest of the runs.
However your setup is a "pioneer" to the community so I cant wait to see how it turns out.
SUSCRIBED. :thumbup:

Nice #'s

Turbulent insn't better in my opinion. Not that we know how the intakes are changing the MAF signal right now, but I know with the VIII, the signal got so turbulent, that it was very difficult to do a consistent tune. This was due to the issues we had with a MAF curve that wasnt linear due to all the turbulent air created by the intake. On the older cars, this caused the Evo to run very lean on occasion. However, on the X, we are so rich already, it has the opposite affect of bringing us closer to what we consider ideal.

The funny thing is no one really knows what a safe AFR is yet for the X. It may be in 10's, or it could be leaner. We wont know until someone gets some serious logging done with the ECU, and starts playing with it.

You can't port over your experience on the previous Evo to the new one now .. rather .. gotta relearn again :thumbup: ..

The X uses hotwire MAF .. so signals are not affected by vortices now :-p
So go BIG to make it lean .. how much bigger I don't know yet :godance:

Let you know when mine is done .. maybe I'll use a 3.5" (stock approx 3") MAF pipe :rock: .. thats almost 20% increase hehe..

I'm definitely hoping that the new air flow system inst as sensitive as the old ones were, that is for sure. Every time I saw someone with an after market intake, I winced, knowing that they probably didn't even realize how much better the stock air box is over any of those after market intakes.

You can't port over your experience on the previous Evo to the new one now .. rather .. gotta relearn again :thumbup: ..

The X uses hotwire MAF .. so signals are not affected by vortices now :-p
So go BIG to make it lean .. how much bigger I don't know yet :godance:

Let you know when mine is done .. maybe I'll use a 3.5" (stock approx 3") MAF pipe :rock: .. thats almost 20% increase hehe..

Likewise bro...

RRE and I have thought of several different combo's... maybe start off at 3" where the turbo is, then go to 3.5" then fineally 4" if we can fit it in there... kinda like those CF intakes you see for the rice boys (honda).

We will probably try 2-3 different intakes to see which ones effect where and how... i'll keep you guys posted.

-Chris

Any updates?

I have the zetronics wideband o2 on my talon, I mounted it in the center air vents. Where are you thinking about mounting the zetronics in your evo? I like the idea of swaping it over to the evo. Any ideas or pics if you already mounted it?
thanks
J

damn thats crazy. id wanna see more numbers from more Xs

Nice dyno runs!!!

Actually, we picked up quite a bit of power with our intake over the stock setup with no appreciable changes in AFRs. Speaking with other vendors out there, most have seen similar results.

Not a bad set of results there my friend. What gas are you using?