I decided to put the Perrin MBC in my car this weekend (how to coming soon), and just wanted to share some of the interesting things I have found so far.

I was able to set it to 23psi with taper down to ~20psi at red line. This is holding much better then I anticipated, and because several shops have already stated they were drifting down to 16psi, I will need to make a video of this just to prove it I am sure.

The power gains are extremely high when compared to the same mod on a previous gen Evo. The car really snaps you into your seat now, very similar to the VIII stock, and the power band up top is much much better.

The advancement of the ECU is obvious once you get this device in. The first thing I noticed was a lot of timing getting pulled at first. But as I did more runs, I noticed the power band getting smoother and smoother. This is showing some promise that the ECU is not a map set in stone, but a self adjusting and learning ECU that attempts to "Self Tune" itself somewhat. This may be problematic in the future though, as these types of ECU's like to unlearn most base map modifications.

Overall I am starting to think this should be your first mod, as it is netting a ton of power, with very little money out of your pocket. I highly recommend the Perrin device since it comes with everything you need to install it. Extra hoses, zip ties, etc.

http://www.perrinperformance.com/products/list?model=26

Thanks!
Chris

70 bucks? that is pretty cheap =o

Must........get.......

could u by any chance explain exactly what an MBC is to us noobs (points to myself). Also, how u adjusted the boost and so forth. thanks :D

http://www.perrinperformance.com/shared/images/products/63/174_medium.jpg


From their site:

"Your turbocharged street beast demands a higher level of boost and thus a PERRIN™ Performance manual boost controller is in order! Adds horsepower and torque while achieving a perfect balance of response and boost level. Combined in a “twist-to-adjust” package that incorporates a custom wound internal progressive rate spring and ceramic metering ball for boost management. Applicable to all turbo charged applications. "

Post up a how to so we all can get that stuff on the ride man.

I got my perrin ordered, but just worried how to install.

Heres the instructions from the site.

how to with pics ftw!

Post up a how to so we all can get that stuff on the ride man.

I got my perrin ordered, but just worried how to install.

:+1:

I'm kind of new at all of this, so I have a question. When this is installed, how hard is it to determine your boost level? Do you need a boost gauge?

Has anyone found guages that match stock?
better yet, a place to put the aftermarket guages

I'm kind of new at all of this, so I have a question. When this is installed, how hard is it to determine your boost level? Do you need a boost gauge?


Yes, you will need a boost gauge to see what you are boosting with the MBC installed or else you'll be setting the controller blindly and that could be disasterious to your new 4B11.

As soon as i find a decent boost gauge mounting solution I will be getting this

Yes, you will need a boost gauge to see what you are boosting with the MBC installed or else you'll be setting the controller blindly and that could be disasterious to your new 4B11.
would it be the same for electronic boost controller?

Some EBCs have gauges... But nice EBC's are spendy.

I am putting my gauges above the stereo. I am working on getting a pod built for this location. I have completed an install how to in the how to section located here:
http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2925

Sorry for not answering your questions, for some reason I wasnt noticing anyone posting anything in here.

Question:
could u by any chance explain exactly what an MBC is to us noobs (points to myself). Also, how u adjusted the boost and so forth. thanks :D

Answer:
Sure, the MBC is basically a spring with a small ball bearing on the end of the spring trapped inside a small casing. The idea of the MBC is to prevent the wastegate from opening (the wastegate allows the exhaust to travel past the turbo without spinning it) until a certain force criteria is met, or psi. At this point, the spring depresses and the pressure is allowed to move to open the wastegate and prevent any more boost from building. This gives you direct control of what you want for boost levels, and gets rid of the restrictions put in place by the stock boost solenoids which have a lot of taper towards red line. You adjust the boost by turning the boost controller in or out. Tightening it, raises the boost (pre loads the spring more), and loosening it lowers the boost.

Question:
I'm kind of new at all of this, so I have a question. When this is installed, how hard is it to determine your boost level? Do you need a boost gauge?

Answer:
Most definitely! No matter what, you will need a boost gauge (I have a how to coming for this too real soon). You can just get a cheap autometer boost gauge and it will be fine. Boost gauges are very easy to connect, and all you need to do is tap into the intake manifold just after the Fuel Pressure Regulator. How to coming soon.

Hope the how to helps everyone! If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to shoot me a PM, or ask here!

Right above the stereo, right next to the stock gauge cluster would be awesome

Hey PDX, When you installed your MBC. Were there any restrictor pills in the hoses like the ates and nines??

Yep, the restrictor pill was right at the end of the hose next to the turbo outlet connection. Its a fairly large restrictor though, meaning it didnt appear as restrictive as the previous models. This information is included in the write up.

PDXEvo: Thanks for the thread! Nice work! Glad things are working nicely. Stupid DMV won't let me drive the car again until tomorrow (long story!) SO I need to finish the break in over the weekend, then dyno and do a DIY etc.

On the gauges and mounting. I am working on a two-gauge pod combo that uses our ASM-INR-300 Shown HERE! (http://www.perrinperformance.com/products/show/58/Gauge-pod?category=9&model=22)

And a few gauges as well. I will do a DIY and make a coupon code / EvoXforums discount for you guys as well. Stay Tuned!

I will do a DIY and make a coupon code / EvoXforums discount for you guys as well. Stay Tuned!

:+1:

will need a kit with gauge and mbc.:godance:

Good idea Toytec! It would be cool to have a MBC / Gauge / Gauge Mounting kit all in one kind of thing. I had a lot of left over parts from a previous build, so I only needed the MBC, since Im not sure if I want to use the AVC-R or not with this car.

Really looking forward to seeing what you guys put together Adam! Thanks again for being a part of, and supporting, this great community!

yeah sorry im a noobie..but could you get a boost controller like the HKS EVC and the PERRIN boost controller?? sorry for the stupid questions...





Rene


i know ones electronic boost controller...and the other one is in the engine by...i'm soo confused..please help a retarted person out..lol


:tumbleweed: dduuuuuhhh..lol

Good idea Toytec! It would be cool to have a MBC / Gauge / Gauge Mounting kit all in one kind of thing. I had a lot of left over parts from a previous build, so I only needed the MBC, since Im not sure if I want to use the AVC-R or not with this car.

Really looking forward to seeing what you guys put together Adam! Thanks again for being a part of, and supporting, this great community!

Hey no issue! I am thinking a Boost and either EGT or Oil Temp Combo to go with the MBC if folks want it. So thanks for the boost!

yeah sorry im a noobie..but could you get a boost controller like the HKS EVC and the PERRIN boost controller?? sorry for the stupid questions...





Rene


i know ones electronic boost controller...and the other one is in the engine by...i'm soo confused..please help a retarted person out..lol


:tumbleweed: dduuuuuhhh..lol

One you aren't special and two it is a good question. You can use either but it is needless to run them together. If you have the EVC then use it. If not, don't spend the extra coin and buy the PERRIN MBC ( or similar) to go on the car. PDX Evo above has a how to someplace and I will have one up ASAP.

PLEASE let me know how I can help in ANYWAY further! Chat soon!

thank you sir!! ill for sure and get that PERRIN MBC .... :godance:





thanks again



Rene

3 questions PDX,

1) What do you do with the exposed T's on the solenoids? You just leave them exposed? I remember capping the solenoid side on my 9...

2) What do you do with the "extra hose that you removed from the solenoid side? The one that goes to the intake "air inlet".... is that one just dangling around in the engine bay? or did you remove that hose and cap off the intake nipple....

3) Are we bypassing BOTH solenoids in this case?

thanks for the great writeup, just some follow-up questions on missing steps from the write-up!

bump for a reply!

When we were playing with this on the dyno the other night, Jeff had the kevlar gloves and did it before I could even see what he had done. I will have him reply here as to what does and doesn't get plugged.

Sorry for the delay!

Super easy, just unplug all the factory hoses from the boost side, and Wastegate actuator. Then the left over hoses you can just connect together with a 5/32" one to one connector. Super easy.

Here is the dyno graph of the MBC set to 23psi and 25psi. Its not super safe to run 25psi, as we kept seeing some sign of misfire or knock.
Purple is stock, Blue is 23psi, and yellow is 25psi.

http://www.perrinperformance.com/shared/images/dynos/2008_evox_testtune/evobasevs23psivs25psi.jpg

Thanks JEFF!

did you have to drill thru firewall to run boost gauge line? if yes, where? thanks

PDXEvo
Did you try just pulling out the pill restrictor and seeing what improvements could be had for free?
On previous Evos (I have owned a 5, 6 and 7) pulling out the restrictor yeilded improved boost across the rev range.
I have looked at the pill retrictor and it DOES limit the flow of air significantly! I will take a picture and post...

No, I didn't try just pulling the restrictor and seeing what would happen. This may be an interesting test, however, since the ECU controls the boost, I would guess that the boost would be similar over time. But thats just a guess. Jeff Perrin is pretty much an expert on these things, and may have more to add.

Antics, sorry for the delayed response, I didnt notice the thread activity here. Anyway, my strategy, as stated in the write up, was to reuse the stock hoses as much as possible. The hoses coming from the stock solenoids are just hanging there, with no issues, and the one that I removed going between the solenoids and the T between the turbo outlet and the wastegate is in a box in my garage labeled "Stock Evo X parts".

I also wanted to share with everyone that if the closer you put the MBC to the wastegate, the more responsive it will be. I have mine a bit further away then normal, for adjustment purposes, and this causes some over shoot. Moving it real close to the wastegate nearly gets rid of this overshoot, and provides smoother boost operation.

Just ordered my MBC! w00t!

Whats the big dip at 6,000rpm - 6,200rpm on the 23psi (blue) graph?

Whats the big dip at 6,000rpm - 6,200rpm on the 23psi (blue) graph?

Knock, pulled timing etc.

hey PDXevo, i installed the perrin mbc and a a day later when i was driving my car kinda freaks out and goes into "limp mode" where i get like no power and it limits u to only 20 mph. has this ever happened to you?

i installed a hallman mbc the same way u guys install the perrin with the outlet going to the wastegate and the other hose going to the top part..but it doesnt really work..eventhough i just took the hose that was on the one solenoid and just connected it to the other..

I thought these things are throwing CEL codes so I am staying away from them for now. Any CEL codes?

no codes so far..

how high do you think its safe to raise boost to?

how high do you think its safe to raise boost to?

Doesn't look like the ECU likes it past 25psi according to some.

It seems 90% of people are installing Manual Boost Controllers instead of Electronic Boost Controllers. Any particular reason for this?

MBCs are cheaper, simpler to install, and easier to deal with.

Even noobies can figure out the MBC's haha

yea well i just took my out cause for some reson i had it turned all the way down and it hit bout 30psi and the check engine light came on

Wow, 30psi is up there. You should have hit boost cut at 26. Are you sure you installed it properly? What was your hose length?

yea well i just took my out cause for some reson i had it turned all the way down and it hit bout 30psi and the check engine light came on

Uhh that isn't good :( . I thought boost cut was around 26?

i definatly had it hooked up right.. but i might of had a little to much hose....but wuld that cause my gauge to jump to 30psi....Well ill tell u the story...The boost controller worked fine for about 4 hours(at 21psi) then i heard a thump or somtin and it was running like sh*t and i had to pull over..it felt like the car had cams in it... then i shut it off and it ran fine but had a engine light..so the next day i go to work and check the code and it says manufacturer air and fuel metering..so i cleared it because it was running fine...So i go to drive it and it hits 26psi in 2nd gear...so i turned it all the way off....................and drove it again and then hit 30psi and it said maintnence required and the ASC off light was on..so i restarted the car and the lights were off....so then i decided just to take it out.....and now im back at 21psi....

u just leave no hoses on the stock boost controllers?

The shorter the hose length, the quicker everything will respond. You should try and set your MBC in 3rd or 4th gear. This will give you a solid load for you tune, and will prevent you from over boosting.

The shorter the hose length, the quicker everything will respond. You should try and set your MBC in 3rd or 4th gear. This will give you a solid load for you tune, and will prevent you from over boosting.

Good point!

I don't mean to get off topic but I just have a quick question while you're in this area. Is there enough slack on the OEM hoses to cut out the portion where the pill is and put it back without having to put the manual boost controller or use any additional hoses?

I don't mean to get off topic but I just have a quick question while you're in this area. Is there enough slack on the OEM hoses to cut out the portion where the pill is and put it back without having to put the manual boost controller or use any additional hoses?

i have that now cause when i went to take the hose off the first time it was so stuck i had to cut the hose after the pill..
and im hitting 24psi in 3rd and 4th gear..i dont remember hitting that b4..so yes it will fit

Great, so I guess there's some slight HP to be had from that. I'll be doing that this weekend then. Thanks LittleG.

yeah i guess but i dont know if it spikes though cause i didnt really keep the gas pedal down when i saw it i immediatly let go.....But i heard thats normal for 4th gear to have 24...

i juss installed the perrin mbc did as instructed from the installation pdf but i had messed up on the turbo outlet side by stripping the rubber off wif my pliers because the goddamn thing wouldnt come off so i had to cut that shorter and shorter because of the pill so its about like 2-2.5 inchs long and even with the lowest setting on the mbc im getting 25-27psi top and tapers to 20, question is how do i get it to lower because i heard running over 25psi is bad? i first had it set so that i can see one thread from the silver thing on the mbc and it gave me a C.E.L but after i turned it all the way down it has not come back. please tell me if i am setting the silver knob wrong?

i juss installed the perrin mbc did as instructed from the installation pdf but i had messed up on the turbo outlet side by stripping the rubber off wif my pliers because the goddamn thing wouldnt come off so i had to cut that shorter and shorter because of the pill so its about like 2-2.5 inchs long and even with the lowest setting on the mbc im getting 25-27psi top and tapers to 20, question is how do i get it to lower because i heard running over 25psi is bad? i first had it set so that i can see one thread from the silver thing on the mbc and it gave me a C.E.L but after i turned it all the way down it has not come back. please tell me if i am setting the silver knob wrong?
Did your Perrin MBC come with like 18" of Silicone tubing?

yes it came with a really really long tubing

yes it came with a really really long tubing
Use that, cut it to length.
Your current length is too short. Try about 6" on either side of the MBC.

i cut the tubing that perrin provided in half as instructed and install it on both sides of the mbc

if u see 5 threads on the mbc is that more boost or less boost because i currently have it set to the point where u see no threads and its really tight

its my turbo outlet tube that is about 2.5 in

Try a longer length on your turbo outlet side.
I hit 27psi, and I think I have 2 threads showing.

do u C.E.L because first time i had 1.5 threads then i boosted over to 30 psi and got c.e.l and after i turned where u dont see any the c.e.l juss dissapeared

I have an ECUTek tune... no CEL

oOo

so more threads = more boost ?

so more threads = more boost ?
yes

i juss installed the perrin mbc did as instructed from the installation pdf but i had messed up on the turbo outlet side by stripping the rubber off wif my pliers because the goddamn thing wouldnt come off so i had to cut that shorter and shorter because of the pill so its about like 2-2.5 inchs long and even with the lowest setting on the mbc im getting 25-27psi top and tapers to 20, question is how do i get it to lower because i heard running over 25psi is bad? i first had it set so that i can see one thread from the silver thing on the mbc and it gave me a C.E.L but after i turned it all the way down it has not come back. please tell me if i am setting the silver knob wrong?


Sorry you are having issues. Give us a quick ring and speak to Jeff or Chris. We will get to the bottom of it ASAP for you. No reason to stress, just pick up the phone! :thumbup:

its fixed now it tops at 23-24 and tapers at 20-21psi and the mbc was confusing to the point where i turned the thing all the way up, thats why it was over boosting. i thought the more threads the more boost but it's actually the less threads u see the more boost

its fixed now it tops at 23-24 and tapers at 20-21psi and the mbc was confusing to the point where i turned the thing all the way up, thats why it was over boosting. i thought the more threads the more boost but it's actually the less threads u see the more boost

Oh K! As long as you are happy, then I am happy!

Let me know if I can ever help further!

Chat then!

Hey PDXevo, ever get a writeup for the boost gauge install? If you have any tips that'd be great, especially for where to run lines through the wall. I just ordered the Perrin gauge/pod combo and the Perrin MBC (on Christmas discount, thanks Perrin!). Your writeup for the MBC will be immensely helpful but I'm still a bit worried about the gauge setup...

Hey PDXevo, ever get a writeup for the boost gauge install? If you have any tips that'd be great, especially for where to run lines through the wall. I just ordered the Perrin gauge/pod combo and the Perrin MBC (on Christmas discount, thanks Perrin!). Your writeup for the MBC will be immensely helpful but I'm still a bit worried about the gauge setup...

I haven't seen PDXEvo in a while even here locally! I hope to though soon.

I will mention this to Jeff Perrin though and see if he can pop in with a few tips. He recently took over my 08 EVO X and will be doing more with the car than I had time for! Gauges are CERTAINLY at the top of that list!

Thanks again!

will use this in the A.M hours

3 questions PDX,

1) What do you do with the exposed T's on the solenoids? You just leave them exposed? I remember capping the solenoid side on my 9...

2) What do you do with the "extra hose that you removed from the solenoid side? The one that goes to the intake "air inlet".... is that one just dangling around in the engine bay? or did you remove that hose and cap off the intake nipple....

3) Are we bypassing BOTH solenoids in this case?

thanks for the great writeup, just some follow-up questions on missing steps from the write-up!

i read through but don't think i saw the answer to some of these...im bout to install my Forge MBC that i had in my IX. I think i have all the hoses for the install. Could somone clear up the issues in these questions for me? thanks!

^^anyone help me out with those...im gonna try to install it tomorrow.
i didn't look under the hood yet but it looks like the 2 hoses from the stock dual solenoid were left open?? Am i missing something...like i said i didn't have a chance to look under there yet so im just using the pics.

^^anyone help me out with those...im gonna try to install it tomorrow.
i didn't look under the hood yet but it looks like the 2 hoses from the stock dual solenoid were left open?? Am i missing something...like i said i didn't have a chance to look under there yet so im just using the pics.
Sounds like its hooked up right.

Sounds like its hooked up right.

what do you mean its hooked up right?
In pic #3 on the write up it looks like 2 hoses got removed from the dual solenoid but in the end it just says to connect a hose to the wastegate and turbo outlet...and it looks like in the final pic theres nothing on the dual solenoid.

what do you mean its hooked up right?
In pic #3 on the write up it looks like 2 hoses got removed from the dual solenoid but in the end it just says to connect a hose to the wastegate and turbo outlet...and it looks like in the final pic theres nothing on the dual solenoid.
Um exactly. The MBC completely bypasses the Stock Solenoids.

alright thanks...thats what i was asking basically...i didn't know if thats what you ment by its hooked up right. im gonna put on my AMS parts tomorrow (intercooler, uicp, licp, o2 downpipe if i have time) and hoping to install this tomorrow too..cause im gonna go to the track for the first time on wednesday.

What you'll need to do is just bypass the 2 solenoids. You can keep the vacuum lines from the intake to the solenoids, but then you get rid of the lines going from the solenoids to the turbo. Just put the MBC between the turbo and the wastegate.

Hmm Do you have to keep the original hoses from the turbo in and wastegate. I believe one of them has a restrictor pill in it. Just wondering if you need those original two hoses or not (along with the restrictor pill)

Thanks!

Hmm Do you have to keep the original hoses from the turbo in and wastegate. I believe one of them has a restrictor pill in it. Just wondering if you need those original two hoses or not (along with the restrictor pill)

Thanks!
Please read.
Search.
You'll find the answer. It was JUST answered a few posts ago.

Sorry i'm a super noob I don't see anything talking about those hoses and the restrictor pill.
Edit: Oh remove everything just use MBC..sorry took a few readings thru to sink in.

Sorry i'm a super noob I don't see anything talking about those hoses and the restrictor pill.
Edit: Oh remove everything just use MBC..sorry took a few readings thru to sink in.
What you'll need to do is just bypass the 2 solenoids. You can keep the vacuum lines from the intake to the solenoids, but then you get rid of the lines going from the solenoids to the turbo. Just put the MBC between the turbo and the wastegate.

BINGO!