Hi all..

I made the switch between ATR/AP to EcuFlash/EvoScan. I moved my ATR maps into ECUFlash the best I could (there were a few "missing" tables), and aside from a really bad startup at first, it seems to be alright.

The only issue I have now is that shifts under boost now in my MR are VERY jerky, almost like a a manual. It feels like full boost is being recirced and I get a massive wave of compressor surge. I have not change anything under the hood.. just the map.

If I cruise around, the shifts are like butter. The only issue comes when I am under slight/moderate boost, the car will shift, buck HARD, then continue on merrily.

Any ideas? :crap:

Edit: This was a map I created in Access Tuner Race (Cobb) for E85 and supporting mods, as well as an FPRed + 3-Port. The map worked flawlessly on my SST.. now that I've copied the tables to ECUFlash, the SSTs shifts are clunky and boost is being vented during shifts.. ugh..Help?

check your limits, boost settings in ecuflash. needs a tune badly

The boost settings are what I copied from the maps I made in ATR for offset, wastegate, and targets.. they are identical.

DTCs are disabled, no codes are being thrown.

Did you get:
Air flow Limits
TQ limiting Maps

I'm betting there are tables that we can't access through ATR that Cobb can set. Good thing I have a GSR. :)

Changed those as well.

I bet you didn't copy over the lower bound timing table which is used between shifts.

- Bryan

I bet you didn't copy over the lower bound timing table which is used between shifts.

- Bryan

Lower Bound Ignition Timing?

If so, I made this a straight -20 across the board.. Should this be more inline with what I am requesting on the normal ignition timing tables? I didn't do a direct 1-1 copy from ATR for this table.. (I had modified ATR's LBIT as well)

Lower Bound Ignition Timing?

If so, I made this a straight -20 across the board.. Should this be more inline with what I am requesting on the normal ignition timing tables? I didn't do a direct 1-1 copy from ATR for this table.. (I had modified ATR's LBIT as well)

-20 across the board? yes that is why it shifts like shiat and breaks up now. ;) It's also probably boost spiking like a son-of-a-bitch between shifts at WOT now with -20*

You want to match your timing with the normal ignition table at each RPM/Load % in the higher load areas, then reduce it 2-3* from what is in your normal ignition table.

At the light load/cruise areas. -4 to -2 make the shifts butta.

I just gave you some of my SST secrets. ;)

- Bryan

Damn, that explains so much, including with ATR.. thanks a ton. I'll give it a shot. If that solves the problem, it's worth a "donation" to you guys - shoot a pm if you guys take paypal.. otherwise if I get to cali I'm dropping by and buying pure labor to do nothing ;)

No dice still =(

I think this definitely plays a roll, but I still need to do some tweaking. I'm seeing that what I think are "shift points" in the log, I'm dropping to -5, -10* in timing, and that would explain what you mentioned..

I gotta get this tweaked out.. so annoying.

No dice still =(

I think this definitely plays a roll, but I still need to do some tweaking. I'm seeing that what I think are "shift points" in the log, I'm dropping to -5, -10* in timing, and that would explain what you mentioned..

I gotta get this tweaked out.. so annoying.

Can you post a screenshot of your lower bound table?

- Bryan

I went back again and re-tweaked it. It's running somewhat better now.. Still slight jerks at some rpm/boost levels.

http://imgur.com/bfJTg.jpg

http://imgur.com/M5Box.jpg

What load / RPM are you still getting the jerks and what is your boost doing there?

It's hard to say unfortunately.. it'd sure make this a heck of a lot easier.

I do see that the timing will drop to 0*, before it was dropping to -5 to -10* timing when it was at low/partial load. (120 load timing and below).

I have some pretty crappy logs if that'd help..

Do you have access to the tables that cobb labeled SST throttle and SST torque tables in your copy of ecu flash? The copy I have does not have those tables, and they are relatively important. I think Bryan and some others have a beta that has those tables in it, but I don't know if it is being circulated yet.

Nope, don't have those tables.

Looks like almost any place in 4th gear, and almost everything at 3k RPM. I am getting all sorts of different load cells in my logs, so it's hard to pinpoint.

The other issue I am having is that 2nd gear is almost non-existent under boost from 1st. If I am on an all-out launch, 1st gear goes fast, and if I shift, it hangs at about 5-6k RPM, so I shift again, and after it's done hanging, it grips at 4k in 3rd gear... hard to explain, but it misses all of 2nd gear. :tumbleweed:

Anyone have any input? :D

Congrats you are hitting the SST torque and throttle map limits (before tuning them)

Also, what are you using for boost control?

- Bryan

Congrats you are hitting the SST torque and throttle map limits (before tuning them)

Also, what are you using for boost control?

- Bryan

Crap, was hoping it wasn't that..

For boost control..
3-port/ECU/Stock DV.

Congrats you are hitting the SST torque and throttle map limits (before tuning them)

Also, what are you using for boost control?

- Bryan

update .. all limits on the ECU .. to put it in perspective :D if you even call them limits :rock:

All maps must sync for the SST to operate properly ..
Gearbox is actual wheel limits .. thats what been stumping me all this while ..
once the gearbox reaches the WTQ limits .. it starts protecting itself .. thats where you guys reach most of the time .. ;)

I couldn't correlate why its supposed to be calculated and yet you guys are htting it at the wheels until it dawned on me that it IS the actual wheels limit .. no drivetrain loss because it is the drivetrain haha ..

Gunzo, how about laymens term for the last post.

What power can we put down now on the MR? HP and TQ? At the wheels I mean.

Gunzo, how about laymens term for the last post.

What power can we put down now on the MR? HP and TQ? At the wheels I mean.
Getrag asigns part numbers to their transmissions based on the Newton Meters of torque they are rated at. What gunzo is saying, is that the limits in the tcu are actual torque numbers, not calculated loads. (Well, some of them are)I think thats what he's saying any how.

Getrag asigns part numbers to their transmissions based on the Newton Meters of torque they are rated at. What gunzo is saying, is that the limits in the tcu are actual torque numbers, not calculated loads. (Well, some of them are)I think thats what he's saying any how.


That I understand. So what is the torque limit. It has to be higher than the 330 or 340 that SSP's car is putting down. Especially if we agree Cobb's car was doing 400+.

I've been waiting to start my modding till people know how. It seems we are about there.

That I understand. So what is the torque limit. It has to be higher than the 330 or 340 that SSP's car is putting down. Especially if we agree Cobb's car was doing 400+.

I've been waiting to start my modding till people know how. It seems we are about there.
I don't think anynoe honestly knows what the physical torque limit is, because no one has hit it. When someone tosses gear parts out the front of the trans, we'll know. I believe the math from one table software is around 484 lb/ft. I have no clue if that means the trans will hold it, we can go there, or it will grenade or whatever. I am confident the transmission will physically hold much more than 400 lbs of torque without an issue though.

I don't think anynoe honestly knows what the physical torque limit is, because no one has hit it. When someone tosses gear parts out the front of the trans, we'll know. I believe the math from one table software is around 484 lb/ft. I have no clue if that means the trans will hold it, we can go there, or it will grenade or whatever. I am confident the transmission will physically hold much more than 400 lbs of torque without an issue though.

I do :godance: ..

But not meaning to be an ass about it .. I can only hint at the possibilities ;)

You are correct about the torque I was referring to ..

everything is actual .. not calculated . and on the engine side .. everything is requested not calculated :computermad:

Gunzo, how about laymens term for the last post.

What power can we put down now on the MR? HP and TQ? At the wheels I mean.

http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=453137&postcount=460

I do :godance: ..

But not meaning to be an ass about it .. I can only hint at the possibilities ;)

You are correct about the torque I was referring to ..

everything is actual .. not calculated . and on the engine side .. everything is requested not calculated :computermad:One thing I have figured out is that the SST equipped cars are not like "normal" gsr cars. On a GSR, the gear box is this thing that hangs off the end of the engine, and transfers power from the flywheel to the drivetrain. That's it. So it is totally controlled by the user, and the the power the engine puts out.

The SST however is different. It controls the engine. It allows you to tell it what gear to be in, but only to a point. Ever try to do a rolling start in 3rd gear? Good luck with that. Everything from throttle input to gear selection is a request to the transmission. If the request is within what its software will allow, it will try to comply, but if it is not, it won't. Additionally, your request for torque is secondary to the transmission software's primary purpose, to protect itself, from you the user. Getting the SST cars to put down the power, and then put down the power and still shift well is a challenge now. However once more people figure out ways to defeat the built in protections and limits, and gain access to some of the software that controls things like stationary rev limits, shift points, map limits etc, they will become "less challenging".

Gunzo, please do tell what the physical limit is, so I know what to shoot for. Blowing up my SST will in some ways be a victory. If for no other reason than it means that we were able to defeat Getrag at its game of protecting its gear box from us! Plus it will allow me to get a dog box past the budget department....

Gunzo, please do tell what the physical limit is, so I know what to shoot for. Blowing up my SST will in some ways be a victory. If for no other reason than it means that we were able to defeat Getrag at its game of protecting its gear box from us! Plus it will allow me to get a dog box past the budget department....

Gunzo might give me a poke for this but all I can say is you might be getting close, if you dynoed on something other then the COBB dynos, we might know what your real wtq is.

As far as shifting and "real-world' SST drivability with power, don't worry there is a small team working on it. I bought a SST equipped mitsu just for this purpose because the SST fascinates me. I can tell you I have got my personal SST equipped mitsu to shift like absolute arse to buttah with just a flash... ;)

Lots of poking in the dark going on right now. It's going to be worth the wait, trust me.

- Bryan

Gunzo might give me a poke for this but all I can say is you might be getting close, if you dynoed on something other then the COBB dynos, we might know what your real wtq is.

As far as shifting and "real-world' SST drivability with power, don't worry there is a small team working on it. I bought a SST equipped mitsu just for this purpose because the SST fascinates me. I can tell you I have got my personal SST equipped mitsu to shift like absolute arse to buttah with just a flash... ;)

Lots of poking in the dark going on right now. It's going to be worth the wait, trust me.

- Bryan
I dyno'd 357tq on 3 back to back pulls at 466, 467, and 474 hp @ 7kish, or something like that yesterday. I had to cut off rpm there because my fuel pump couldn't keep up. That is getting fixed this week. I have some things to test next week, and we'll see what happens. Here is a link to my dyno graph. I did it on J-trans mustang, wich was overhauled and calibrated on site by Mustang about 3 months ago.
http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31795

gunzo break a SST gearbox ! fasssst and let us know the limits LoL

just j/k

well this is the wonderful thing about the torque and horsepower relationship..

you can have a bucketload off horsepower but not much torque...

still... for what the SST lacks in torque-ability it makes up in shift speed...

Evo X MR SST gearbox has any limit in the Ecu wihat Ecuflash still can't mod ? Only with Cobb ? A Torque or Airflow limit over the SST cant shift smooth ?

Is this the SST torque limit codes ?

<table name="SST Throttle Computation Map #1" category="Intake" address="5925d" type="3D" scaling="ISCVSteps">
<table name="Load" address="613e4" type="X Axis" elements="17" scaling="Throttle %"/>
<table name="RPM" address="6135e" type="Y Axis" elements="16" scaling="RPM"/>
</table>
<table name="SST Throttle Computation Map #2" category="Intake" address="59375" type="3D" scaling="ISCVSteps">
<table name="Load" address="613e4" type="X Axis" elements="17" scaling="Throttle %"/>
<table name="RPM" address="6135e" type="Y Axis" elements="16" scaling="RPM"/>
</table>
<table name="SST Throttle Computation Map #3" category="Intake" address="5948d" type="3D" scaling="ISCVSteps">
<table name="Load" address="613e4" type="X Axis" elements="17" scaling="Throttle %"/>
<table name="RPM" address="6135e" type="Y Axis" elements="16" scaling="RPM"/>
</table>

nope they are a requested tq map...

Tephra beat me to it...

Edit: Decided just to email my tuner