Hello All,

I have a 2010 MR Touring. Have been running stage 1 since 1000kms and am now at 9000km on the car. Have had a great time, but wanted more power as we all do. Installed a Tsudo downpipe back exhaust, removed the pill and flashed to Stage 2 93+octane. It was running not so great and was overboosting. So I reflashed to the Stage 2 93+ for overboosting cars. It is running better but doesnt seem like it pulls any harder than stage 1 other than maybe a little in second gear. The hesitation off the line also feels slightly worse.

Anything I can try to make the car feel "tight" again like in stage 1?

Cheers,

Scott

Figure I'd put up a photo of my car seeing as this is my first post on this forum.

Cheers :)

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/8603/evox2.jpg

Same results I had with Stage 2 vs Stage 1. 2 was no improvement over Stg. 1.

Are you running a test pipe or HFC?

my times got worse with stage 2 and full 3in exhaust but then again i had a new clutch installed and wasnt fully used to it stock slipping clutch i ran a 13.125 new clutch i ran a 13.184

U need a downpipe and testpipe for sure to see some decent improvements....

Are you running a test pipe or HFC?


doesn't Cobb base the stage 2 map off a HFC?

you need better flow dude. full catless turbo back will help alot.

get it dyno tuned by a professional. these are one size fits all maps and don't always work perfectly on everyones car.

very true.

ots map is fine...the one main reason someone bought an AP is one day your gonna pro tune it.

ots map is fine...the one main reason someone bought an AP is one day your gonna pro tune it.

yup. they're safe maps that anyoen can run but they aren't going to make the most power....Cobb leaves room for improvement.

2010 evo X are putting down 300+ bone stock pro tuned it would be worth your time and money if u want power and arent going to do much work to the motor anytime soon

Get pro-tuned if you want more power and the car to run the best.

I installed the 3inch Test pipe Exhaust so only thing stock is the turbo downpipe...

Who does everyone recomend to get a pro tune through using the AP. I am up in Canada :S

hmm iv always heard that stage 2 isnt as glorious when going from stage 1. but from stock to stage 2 is like whoa! i wanna run stage 2 as well but im not sure if my mods are enough. check sig

If you're going to stick with the lame OTS maps, just do what the lame OTS maps say to do. Don't try to go early, or deviate from the map's specifications.

If you want to venture out beyond those tight constraints, get a pro/custom tune.

with the cat in place, stage 2 is less powerful than stage 1. with the cat removed, there is a noticible difference. use the ap dyno, according to the posts in this forum, to find the map that best works for you. i never had an overboosting issue with either map. the suggestion of a pro-tune is definately the way to go. your freres in canada should be able to make a recommendation.

If you're going to stick with the lame OTS maps, just do what the lame OTS maps say to do. Don't try to go early, or deviate from the map's specifications.

If you want to venture out beyond those tight constraints, get a pro/custom tune.

I am running the lame OTS Cobb stage 2 93octane MAP with what they recommend (turbo back exhaust) and it is running terribly...

Cheers,

Scott

my times got worse with stage 2 and full 3in exhaust but then again i had a new clutch installed and wasnt fully used to it stock slipping clutch i ran a 13.125 new clutch i ran a 13.184

U need a downpipe and testpipe for sure to see some decent improvements....

doesn't Cobb base the stage 2 map off a HFC?

you need better flow dude. full catless turbo back will help alot.

hmm iv always heard that stage 2 isnt as glorious when going from stage 1. but from stock to stage 2 is like whoa! i wanna run stage 2 as well but im not sure if my mods are enough. check sig

with the cat in place, stage 2 is less powerful than stage 1. with the cat removed, there is a noticible difference. use the ap dyno, according to the posts in this forum, to find the map that best works for you. i never had an overboosting issue with either map. the suggestion of a pro-tune is definately the way to go. your freres in canada should be able to make a recommendation.

To touch on some of this because I see so many of these issues popping up every 30 seconds.

1. Cobb makes the OTS maps to work with the stock cat. When they say TBE they mean stock cat and Cobb doughnut cack DP. So basically don't even count the DP at all because the stock one is good for damn near 400whp.

2. When you flash a stage 2 on with a test pipe or HFC you WILL overboost and you WILL have knock and it will pull your timing. This is why a stage 2 feels slower than a stage 1.

3. If you have a test pipe of HFC run a LWG or one octane lower map possibly both the make it all good. By doing this and getting rid of the knock you will actually have more power because your car isn't being crippled by knock every time you stomp on the throttle.

4. DO NOT use a stage 1 map on an open exhaust, it will cause more knock than a stage 2 will because the MIVEC is far more aggressive.

5. Choose a map that fits your car and does not have more than a .35-.7 KR in a 3rd gear pull. If you do your just cheating yourself out of power and hurting your car.

Dont mean to thread jack but how much is a pro-tune at COBB plano ?

To touch on some of this because I see so many of these issues popping up every 30 seconds.

1. Cobb makes the OTS maps to work with the stock cat. When they say TBE they mean stock cat and Cobb doughnut cack DP. So basically don't even count the DP at all because the stock one is good for damn near 400whp.

2. When you flash a stage 2 on with a test pipe or HFC you WILL overboost and you WILL have knock and it will pull your timing. This is why a stage 2 feels slower than a stage 1.

Did not know that. How is a TBE equal to a cat-back in Cobbs mind? lol

Did not know that. How is a TBE equal to a cat-back in Cobbs mind? lol

When they did the maps they did them for "Street legal" purposes so untouched stock cat. They post TBE because they sell their own doughnut back DP and used one while building the maps.

Problem is their DP is no better than the stocker so your looking at a "Catback" exhaust.

When they did the maps they did them for "Street legal" purposes so untouched stock cat. They post TBE because they sell their own doughnut back DP and used one while building the maps.

Problem is their DP is no better than the stocker so your looking at a "Catback" exhaust.


so if i got the ams downpipe and put on a cat-back exhaust, would it be ok then to flash to stage 2?

When they did the maps they did them for "Street legal" purposes so untouched stock cat. They post TBE because they sell their own doughnut back DP and used one while building the maps.

Problem is their DP is no better than the stocker so your looking at a "Catback" exhaust.


So by putting in the test pipe and full 3inch exhaust I actually have more flow than their "turbo back" system? And thats why the LWG tune helped a bit...so anything else I can try without going to a pro-tune? I am running 94octane on their 93+ octane stage 2 LWG tune.

Thanks for the time!!

good info hollywood thanks. I may try the Stage 2 LWG map myself and see what happens.

get a manual boost controller, problem solved?

Sweet. Stg 2 with my Borla catback in the near future. A full catless TBE would be just too damn loud.

To touch on some of this because I see so many of these issues popping up every 30 seconds.

1. Cobb makes the OTS maps to work with the stock cat. When they say TBE they mean stock cat and Cobb doughnut cack DP. So basically don't even count the DP at all because the stock one is good for damn near 400whp.

2. When you flash a stage 2 on with a test pipe or HFC you WILL overboost and you WILL have knock and it will pull your timing. This is why a stage 2 feels slower than a stage 1.

3. If you have a test pipe of HFC run a LWG or one octane lower map possibly both the make it all good. By doing this and getting rid of the knock you will actually have more power because your car isn't being crippled by knock every time you stomp on the throttle.

4. DO NOT use a stage 1 map on an open exhaust, it will cause more knock than a stage 2 will because the MIVEC is far more aggressive.

5. Choose a map that fits your car and does not have more than a .35-.7 KR in a 3rd gear pull. If you do your just cheating yourself out of power and hurting your car.

ok i hate to be rude or anything. but can you please just look at my mods in my sig and tell me what map to use... sorry :imstupid:

Get a custom tune. Plus its going to be hard to feel a 10-15hp gain for stage 1 to 2.

just run hks stage 2 and then depending on the available gas, 91/93 octane. if you overboost with it, either get a mbc or go with the same map with lwg

so if i got the ams downpipe and put on a cat-back exhaust, would it be ok then to flash to stage 2?

Yes, and I have said before I would personally run a stage 2 straight from the dealer. Just use your AP as a gauge and watch for knock, you won't get any unless your running WOT in a road course.

So by putting in the test pipe and full 3inch exhaust I actually have more flow than their "turbo back" system? And thats why the LWG tune helped a bit...so anything else I can try without going to a pro-tune? I am running 94octane on their 93+ octane stage 2 LWG tune.
Thanks for the time!!

If you see higher knock than .35-.7 then try using a lower octane map. Typically the run the same boost just less timing so it should clear things up. You can go with either 91 or 91 ACN. Report your results back.

ok i hate to be rude or anything. but can you please just look at my mods in my sig and tell me what map to use... sorry :imstupid:

If I were you I would run the HKS stage 2 and if you see muck for knock drop to a lower octane map.

Hollywood_X

I did three logs in 3rd gear today and only one had a knock retard of 1.05 from 6500-7100rpm. The other two runs did not go over .70

Hollywood_X

I did three logs in 3rd gear today and only one had a knock retard of 1.05 from 6500-7100rpm. The other two runs did not go over .70

That sounds good, plus sometimes the 1.05's show up on shifts.

Get a custom tune. Plus its going to be hard to feel a 10-15hp gain for stage 1 to 2.

true. I got my car dyno at the same place for both stage 1 and stage 2, and it was also within 5 degrees.

Stage 1= 286 hp and 292 tq
Stage 2= 308 hp and 320 tq

Not the gains I had hoped for. Also, for stage 2 run the exhaust and FMIC were added.

I would be interested to see what the difference is between your stock IC and your AMS IC. I remember when I had my turbo'd cobalt that a larger IC on a stock turbo would actually lose power.

A custom tune should still get you 320HP/340TQ

I would be interested to see what the difference is between your stock IC and your AMS IC. I remember when I had my turbo'd cobalt that a larger IC on a stock turbo would actually lose power.

A custom tune should still get you 320HP/340TQ


yeah that is a good question. I do plan to get a custom tune...one of these days, but for now OTS for me.

I see this about running a lower octane but what if I am already running 91.....do I need to leave it at 91 tune and run 93 then? Or should I just use the 93 with the 93 map? This shiz is confusing.

Yeah, you want to run 93 Oct on a 91 map to have less timing. Should reduce/eliminate your knock issues.

I see this about running a lower octane but what if I am already running 91.....do I need to leave it at 91 tune and run 93 then? Or should I just use the 93 with the 93 map? This shiz is confusing.

If you are experiencing excessive knock on the 91 tune with 91 octane gas and 93 gas is available you should try running 93 octane gas with a 91 octane tune.

Right now I am too busy to play with my car so I am running Stg. 2 + HKSPF 91 Octane tune even thoug I'm filling up with 94 octane gas. I'm not getting the peak performance I would get with the 93 octane tune but I don't have to worry about knock issues as I just don't have the time to log and change tunes, etc.

awww I see. Well I had a custom tune made for my 91 but I was just getting confused reading through the thread. I'll try running the 93 and see if it helps but if not then I'll just stick with the custom one. My idea was to run the 93 octane tune next but if it's going to cause issues then I'll just keep the one I got. Damn evos! haha

I've had issues with knock and stage 2. I think the maps are good starting point but are never going to be anywhere close to a custom tune.

I've had issues with knock and stage 2. I think the maps are good starting point but are never going to be anywhere close to a custom tune.

Yes sir. It's good to have them tweaked a little.

wait does the OP have a DOWNPIPE?
I am confused.
Stage 2 is best combined with a FULL turbo back exhaust.
meaning Catback/Test pipe or HFC/ and Downpipe!

running stage 2 without DP and TP is kinda pointless.

Plus the gains from stage 1 to stage 2 is between 10-20 HP
Kinda hard to feel.

get a Downpipe to allow for more boost, then run the stage 2.
Should feel alot better.

The stock downpipe is good. There is no reason to change it. Actually, I can think of 10 reasons not to change it.

wait does the OP have a DOWNPIPE?
I am confused.
Stage 2 is best combined with a FULL turbo back exhaust.
meaning Catback/Test pipe or HFC/ and Downpipe!

running stage 2 without DP and TP is kinda pointless.

Plus the gains from stage 1 to stage 2 is between 10-20 HP
Kinda hard to feel.

get a Downpipe to allow for more boost, then run the stage 2.
Should feel alot better.

To touch on some of this because I see so many of these issues popping up every 30 seconds.

1. Cobb makes the OTS maps to work with the stock cat. When they say TBE they mean stock cat and Cobb doughnut cack DP. So basically don't even count the DP at all because the stock one is good for damn near 400whp.

2. When you flash a stage 2 on with a test pipe or HFC you WILL overboost and you WILL have knock and it will pull your timing. This is why a stage 2 feels slower than a stage 1.

3. If you have a test pipe of HFC run a LWG or one octane lower map possibly both the make it all good. By doing this and getting rid of the knock you will actually have more power because your car isn't being crippled by knock every time you stomp on the throttle.

4. DO NOT use a stage 1 map on an open exhaust, it will cause more knock than a stage 2 will because the MIVEC is far more aggressive.

5. Choose a map that fits your car and does not have more than a .35-.7 KR in a 3rd gear pull. If you do your just cheating yourself out of power and hurting your car.

You FALE at reading :duh:

great info here hollywood. I was debating on getting DP and HFC and just run OTS map. I guess Im not going to need it going Stage 2

I long for the days when this fucking Cobb obsession dies out, like it did on the CT9As

I long for the days when this fucking Cobb obsession dies out, like it did on the CT9As

It's a great concept and a nice alternative for people that don't have EVO specific tuners in their local area. Problem IMO is that Cobb's tuners/programmers are spread too thin with all the cars they support so they are kind of half-assing things. The v1.06 maps were obviously never tested before they were released and they are just a mess. They have known since April the maps are screwed up yet no revisions have been made. That tells me they are either too busy to get to it or the maps are very messed up.

I'm more talking about the whole "HAI GUYS I HAVE PARTS X AND WANT TO USE MAP TWO EVEN THOUGH IT SAYS MAP TWO ISNT GOOD FOR PARTS X LOLOLZ WHY AM I KNOCKING" kind of bull fucking shit.

At least with custom dyno/road tunes, we're not faced with these "wtf you're a silly goose" question.

You FALE at reading :duh:

You fail at spelling FAIL. Sorry, couldn't resist :)

As I understood it, the reason for the whole TBE for stage 2 is because exhaust gas temps are much higher and you need to get that hot gas out more efficiently - hence the TBE. However, having said that I've been running stage 2 on a CBE for months (including several track days) with absolutely no problems whatsoever.

FALE is a combo of LOSE and FAIL. FALE

:p

FALE is a combo of LOSE and FAIL. FALE

:p

Yeah... It's ok hotdog, we'll give you an A for effort.

with the cat in place, stage 2 is less powerful than stage 1. with the cat removed, there is a noticible difference. use the ap dyno, according to the posts in this forum, to find the map that best works for you. i never had an overboosting issue with either map. the suggestion of a pro-tune is definately the way to go. your freres in canada should be able to make a recommendation.

+2
the cath is a hugee wall in the middle, It's the KEY.
you want to really feel the diference? go like me, AMS straight 3" one pipe, and completly open test pipe. Run the stage 2 and tell me that you don't feel your car jump. lol

Cobb stage II is a good map. it is imposible to create a map for the whole U.S territory. temp and preasure diferences is from day to night.

i read somewhere that guys like me, living in the south tend to overboost more than central and north of U.S, i tried the "less boost" map. didn't like it. i keep my stage 2, i just never floor the gass pedal for more than 5 seconds, nevertheless i never need more than 5 seconds flooring it to get my goal.
:shades:

im going to stg2 soon. hope im not disappointed

^ I am happy with my stage 2. Is it as great as a custom tune? well of course not, but for now it satisfies the right foot.

To touch on some of this because I see so many of these issues popping up every 30 seconds.

1. Cobb makes the OTS maps to work with the stock cat. When they say TBE they mean stock cat and Cobb doughnut cack DP. So basically don't even count the DP at all because the stock one is good for damn near 400whp.

2. When you flash a stage 2 on with a test pipe or HFC you WILL overboost and you WILL have knock and it will pull your timing. This is why a stage 2 feels slower than a stage 1.

3. If you have a test pipe of HFC run a LWG or one octane lower map possibly both the make it all good. By doing this and getting rid of the knock you will actually have more power because your car isn't being crippled by knock every time you stomp on the throttle.

4. DO NOT use a stage 1 map on an open exhaust, it will cause more knock than a stage 2 will because the MIVEC is far more aggressive.

5. Choose a map that fits your car and does not have more than a .35-.7 KR in a 3rd gear pull. If you do your just cheating yourself out of power and hurting your car.

+2
the cath is a hugee wall in the middle, It's the KEY.
you want to really feel the diference? go like me, AMS straight 3" one pipe, and completly open test pipe. Run the stage 2 and tell me that you don't feel your car jump. lol

Cobb stage II is a good map. it is imposible to create a map for the whole U.S territory. temp and preasure diferences is from day to night.

i read somewhere that guys like me, living in the south tend to overboost more than central and north of U.S, i tried the "less boost" map. didn't like it. i keep my stage 2, i just never floor the gass pedal for more than 5 seconds, nevertheless i never need more than 5 seconds flooring it to get my goal.
:shades:

Read above man and log your knock

im so confused. so did i waste my money on a testpipe to go to stg2?

OTS map is only good for specific mods and can only get you so far, bring your AP to a local tuner and do a custom tune.

im so confused. so did i waste my money on a testpipe to go to stg2?

No. Cobb Stage 2 should make more power than stage 1. It may not feel more powerful, but the dyno would say its more powerful.

A protune and stage 2 will feel nice. :) Mine did.

I guess I'll find out soon. I had heard stg2 was a lot better than stg1. should i run the stock cat or go with the testpipe

^ the stock cat is the most restrictive part of the TBE system.

I must have misread hollywood's post. i thought he was saying that you where supposed to run a stock cat with the OTS maps.

Originally Posted by hollywood_X http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=461232#post461232)
To touch on some of this because I see so many of these issues popping up every 30 seconds.

1. Cobb makes the OTS maps to work with the stock cat. When they say TBE they mean stock cat and Cobb doughnut cack DP. So basically don't even count the DP at all because the stock one is good for damn near 400whp.

Im pretty sure thats what he said

so then I should stay with the stock cat then?? or put in my testpipe. I've heard so many people say so many different things.

No. Hollywood means that:

Stage 1 = Stock Cat
Stage 2 = Cobb's High Flow Cat

All Cobb maps are designed to be used with the stock cat. You can use an after market HFC and the map should preform as suggested. However when you add a test pipe it will cause overboost and fluctuations because of the lack of back pressure the maps were designed for.

If you have a test pipe and are seeing overboost and knock use a map meant for a lower octane level. This does not mean you will lose power its just a different calibration better suited for sustaining good power. Just like is Cobb were to tune your car and they saw overboost they would dial back the boost and pull some timing, thats what the lower octane maps do.

You must have a word doc with all of these little quotes that you just paste in here lol

thanks for clearing that up hollywood:thumbup:

All Cobb maps are designed to be used with the stock cat. You can use an after market HFC and the map should preform as suggested. However when you add a test pipe it will cause overboost and fluctuations because of the lack of back pressure the maps were designed for.

If you have a test pipe and are seeing overboost and knock use a map meant for a lower octane level. This does not mean you will lose power its just a different calibration better suited for sustaining good power. Just like is Cobb were to tune your car and they saw overboost they would dial back the boost and pull some timing, thats what the lower octane maps do.

my car can be an example. im running a megan system test pipe back with an aem cone filter at the maf. stage 2 cobb boost is programmed for 25 psi. i hit 27pis, but i have normal cobb ap knocks of .35 and .7, if any at all. i also run in the 11's for afr. put on the test pipe and see how it runs.

Hollywood, will you take a look at my stage 2 logs? Im running an HFC and perrin catback. You can see them in my thread posted yesterday entitled "should I be running 91 oct map?". It would help in this discussion as well I think.

I called and talk to someone at Cobb a month ago and they said in order to run a stage 2 you need a full TBE. They said the DP doesn't need to be changed but their tests were done with one. I asked if I could run a Stage 2 with only a DP/CBE and they said you can "try" and do some logging to see if I was safe.

Hollywood, will you take a look at my stage 2 logs? Im running an HFC and perrin catback. You can see them in my thread posted yesterday entitled "should I be running 91 oct map?". It would help in this discussion as well I think.

Yeah be sure to log the following, no more no less.

Knock
Learned knock
Boost
Ignition advance
rpm
Load (Boost fuel)
Injector duty cycle
throttle position

I'll need a log in 3rd gear from 2000rpm to Redline @ WOT and make sure the car is good and warm before doing the log.