now i know this is a hotly debated topic. i've read alot of the threads, but they end up in a pissing match between people who own throttle controllers and those who think they're stupid.

imaging this scenario in the MR (i don't have to imagine because i live it everyday lol) :

i'm in 1st gear as i'm stopped at the intersection waiting to turn left. i see a car comming, but think i have enough time to make the turn.

so i press the gas a little harder than usual, maybe 1/2 way, thinking i'll get some good acceleration off the line and beat the on comming car. but i literally get like a .5-1 sec lag where it just sort of putters into the turn. it's now too late to stop as i'm in the other car's way. i panic and mash the pedal all the way. after another .1 sec delay, my car goes WOT and takes off.

now i believe a throttle controller could help with this as many owners have attested to. but the makers themselves and "anti throttle controller" peeps claim it makes no difference to 0-60 times. what i don't know is whether they taking brake boosting into the equation during hard launches for drag racing...

if it does alleviate this "hit the pedal, nothing happens for .5sec" problem like alot of owners say it does, i don't see how it couldn't improve a 0-60 time when not brake boosting...like when just casually accelerating off the line at a light.

if the throttle response comes faster with a TC, how are you not getting off the line faster, therefore improving your 0-60 time? again, not brake boosting.

Also, there's a mention in an article for the FQ330-SST that it does not exhibit this problem. did they remap the TCU/ECU?

i'd really like to know

i don't see how it couldn't improve a 0-60 time when not brake boosting...like when just casually accelerating off the line at a light.

Because no one times their 0-60 times with "gentle acceleration from a light"? How would you set the variables for that?

I have no doubt the TC's make it feel more responsive, and could make it FEEL better, but it's not making it FASTER. It's just changing the load points, so to speak. But no one can really claim faster 0-60 times, because when you're actually launching, it's NOT faster.

what about just stomping on the gas from a full stop, pedal to the metal so to speak? if the MR with a TC moves faster off the line instantly vs. a normal MR that will get bogged down for say, .5sec and the go fast, wouldn't the one with the TC win the 0-60?

Because no one times their 0-60 times with "gentle acceleration from a light"? How would you set the variables for that?

I have no doubt the TC's make it feel more responsive, and could make it FEEL better, but it's not making it FASTER. It's just changing the load points, so to speak. But no one can really claim faster 0-60 times, because when you're actually launching, it's NOT faster.

^now that depends how fast you are capable to stomp your pedal down to the medal compared to TC ;)

Exactly what LVS said. It's not magic, it's not wonderment, it's not a mythical beast of war. It just changes the response time. From a pure "normal person fllooring it versus Bob with a TC flooring it", my guess is the TC would be faster. But it'd be hard to quantitatively judge, which is why no one quotes 0-60 time increases.

Do you drive in "Normal" mode? If so quit being lazy and take the 5 seconds to put it in "S-Sport" it's waaaaaaayyyyyy more responsive. Unless you drive it like an automatic, in which case stay in "Normal" and give the throttle controller a try.

The delay is part of owning an MR. You have the clutch engagement time, coupled with turbocharger spool time, which gives a little delay. I agree with DynastyX, just leave it in Sport for your normal driving or S-Sport if you please. I don't think a throttle controller is going to do a lot to help, probably just make the engine *feel* like a squirrel taking off.

I've said this before and I'll say it again.... Buy some ankle weights and exercise your ankle muscles for faster pedal pushing ability, it's a lot cheaper.

Seriously though like others have said here... It only makes the pedal more sensitive than it was before so if you want to see what it would be like using one simply hit your gas faster than you normally do with your foot. The lag you feel off the line is because that's how the ecu/tcu works in our cars, being in sport or s-sport mode will minimize this lag a little bit and it can also be adjusted some with the proper tables in ecuflash (not available to the public).

I've sold over 100 sprint boosters for EVO's, R/A, lancer, outlander, etc, offering a free trial for 3 days and I've never had one back. I and my customers fully understand this little device provides no more power gains, but the drivability is totally changed by these. I know it sounds like the latest "snake oil" and am aware it can be tuned in but you lose the on/off capability. On a stock or slightly modified car it does make a HUGE difference.
You just gotta try it. That's all.

I've sold over 100 sprint boosters for EVO's, R/A, lancer, outlander, etc, offering a free trial for 3 days and I've never had one back. I and my customers fully understand this little device provides no more power gains, but the drivability is totally changed by these. I know it sounds like the latest "snake oil" and am aware it can be tuned in but you lose the on/off capability. On a stock or slightly modified car it does make a HUGE difference.
You just gotta try it. That's all.


You got a link to this little snake oil?


And to those that are worried about making a left? Our MR's are faster than 99% of the cars on the road even with the lag. So either quit being a wuss and worring about it or buy a manual.

I live in CHI and we have plenty of traffic and I make plenty of lefts accross traffic. It never even enters my mind that I might not make it.

to be honest, i use a work vehicle from time to time. it's a late model matrix. i feel safer making a turn in that car than the MR. maybe it's a psychological thing, but when i hit the gas, the matrix GOES! when i hit the gas on the evo, it putters for a second. that second is very unerving when you try to make a turn with someone barreling down on you from the opposite direction.

i will try to do a test on friday. which can make a turn faster from a dead stop. say, 20ft. won't be very scientific, but it'll give a good idea whether it's all in my head or not. lol

You got a link to this little snake oil?


And to those that are worried about making a left? Our MR's are faster than 99% of the cars on the road even with the lag. So either quit being a wuss and worring about it or buy a manual.

I live in CHI and we have plenty of traffic and I make plenty of lefts accross traffic. It never even enters my mind that I might not make it.

^I will buy you a Matrix if you give me your Evo :p

If it lags on you once during a turn, it can fuck up your psyche something fierce.

I had an intercooler pipe blow off at 110MPH running with an RS4; it's a terrifying experience when you're not expecting it. It took me awhile to trust myself to go WOT again, even after swapping to t-bar clamps. It's a similar experience; the fear of what might/did happen.

Who has this issue (and can recreate it on a whim), an OP2 cable and wants to send me their current ROM to test something?

- bryan

I got the cable and the time and the ability to record, but it's certainly not a problem for me.

Who has this issue (and can recreate it on a whim), an OP2 cable and wants to send me their current ROM to test something?

- bryan


You can't do it with cobbs software can you? I can test if you could use cobb.

Let me know if ECUflash and Evoscan works, I can do some testing for you.

Who has this issue (and can recreate it on a whim), an OP2 cable and wants to send me their current ROM to test something?

- bryan

I got the cable and the time and the ability to record, but it's certainly not a problem for me.

So you do not have this issue the others are complaining about?

Let me know if ECUflash and Evoscan works, I can do some testing for you.

yes that is perfect. Do you have this issue the others are complaining about?

Not as bad as the OP, and I can get away with it by turning on the TC if I needed to race.

I will send you my rom tonight and let you have a look.

yes that is perfect. Do you have this issue the others are complaining about?

So you do not have this issue the others are complaining about? No, do not have this issue.

You're more than welcome to look at my ROM (ECUFlash). I can collect EVOScan logs too.

Not as bad as the OP, and I can get away with it by turning on the TC if I needed to race.

I will send you my rom tonight and let you have a look.

But it's obviously there to the point where you would notice if it went away?

No, do not have this issue.

You're more than welcome to look at my ROM (ECUFlash). I can collect EVOScan logs too.

Can I ask what boost control you are using? Stock ECU? If ECU, solenoid upgrade or boost pill upgrade or totally stock solenoid and stock pill?

Bryan i need a cure for this LoL

You got a link to this little snake oil?



http://www.sprintboosterusa.com/

BTW, it won best new product @ SEMA 2009

Bryan i need a cure for this LoL

Do you have a Tactrix OP2 cable and the ability to send me your ROM and then flash it back to your car?

- Bryan

Do you have a Tactrix OP2 cable and the ability to send me your ROM and then flash it back to your car?

- Bryan

So there's a cure?

http://www.sprintboosterusa.com/

BTW, it won best new product @ SEMA 2009

What's the price on this?

What's the price on this?

$329.00

I'm one of those "over 100" people. I like mine a lot. :thumbup: No, the car's not faster, but it does change the "personality" of the car, especially in the lower RPM range. It's a "feel" thing.

I've sold over 100 sprint boosters for EVO's, R/A, lancer, outlander, etc, offering a free trial for 3 days and I've never had one back. I and my customers fully understand this little device provides no more power gains, but the drivability is totally changed by these. I know it sounds like the latest "snake oil" and am aware it can be tuned in but you lose the on/off capability. On a stock or slightly modified car it does make a HUGE difference.
You just gotta try it. That's all.

Can I ask what boost control you are using? Stock ECU? If ECU, solenoid upgrade or boost pill upgrade or totally stock solenoid and stock pill? Stock ECU w/tune, stock boost solenoids, stock pills.

that happens to me while im stock tune, delay on first gear and it will make a sound before the gear engage, now with pro tune, it's gone, plus if you Sport or SSport is it minimal.

So anybody having this issue want to actually test something out for me?

I would imagine by the number of complaints I would have a full PM box after my first post earlier today....

- Bryan

I have the same hesitation issue. Not cool!!

After I put in the WillAll mix, the hesitation reduced.
After Jon @ HBSpeed tuned my car, engine+tcu, the hesitation is almost completely gone. tuning made a big difference in engaging, clampings, etc.

i would, but i don't have the equipment to give you what you need. plus, i guess those of us who are having this problem likely don't want to flash our cars unless it's "warranty safe" :thumbup:

So anybody having this issue want to actually test something out for me?

I would imagine by the number of complaints I would have a full PM box after my first post earlier today....

- Bryan

Do you have a Tactrix OP2 cable and the ability to send me your ROM and then flash it back to your car?

- Bryan


yep ... i think you've forgotten me eh ? i even have a bench kit now LoL :p need yr email so i can send rom to you :godance:

now i know this is a hotly debated topic. i've read alot of the threads, but they end up in a pissing match between people who own throttle controllers and those who think they're stupid.

imaging this scenario in the MR (i don't have to imagine because i live it everyday lol) :

i'm in 1st gear as i'm stopped at the intersection waiting to turn left. i see a car comming, but think i have enough time to make the turn.

so i press the gas a little harder than usual, maybe 1/2 way, thinking i'll get some good acceleration off the line and beat the on comming car. but i literally get like a .5-1 sec lag where it just sort of putters into the turn. it's now too late to stop as i'm in the other car's way. i panic and mash the pedal all the way. after another .1 sec delay, my car goes WOT and takes off.

now i believe a throttle controller could help with this as many owners have attested to. but the makers themselves and "anti throttle controller" peeps claim it makes no difference to 0-60 times. what i don't know is whether they taking brake boosting into the equation during hard launches for drag racing...

if it does alleviate this "hit the pedal, nothing happens for .5sec" problem like alot of owners say it does, i don't see how it couldn't improve a 0-60 time when not brake boosting...like when just casually accelerating off the line at a light.

if the throttle response comes faster with a TC, how are you not getting off the line faster, therefore improving your 0-60 time? again, not brake boosting.

Also, there's a mention in an article for the FQ330-SST that it does not exhibit this problem. did they remap the TCU/ECU?

i'd really like to know


COBB ACCESSPORT CAN TUNE THIS HESITATION OUT THRU MAPPING OR THROTTLE TABLE ADJUSTMENT

I think some of the responses here are confusing the "while you're driving, how to improve the throttle sensitivity response (which really is driving in S-Sport vs Normal)" with "flooring it from a stop, nothing happens for .5sec" The issue the OP is describing, is the delay while trying to take off fairly quickly from a stop while timing it to get in front of a car in an opening in traffic.

I've experienced this issue on my MR as well and almost got hit by the car I pulled in front of grandma style. I find some of the suggestions interesting because when nearly flooring it from a stop (without throttle blip or using launch control) I get the biggest lag on S-Sport mode (shifting manually) vs if it were in Normal.

However, what I've learned to do to avoid this issue, is to blip the gas pedal as I'm anticipating to go to get the clutch mechanism going. Then moments later when timing is right to go, there's no lag and the car just takes off. I don't see how any tuning device is able to trigger all the moving parts at such a short time from the time one hits the gas, disable any hesitation signal, then engage all the moving clutch parts all so that the car acts like a regular auto with a stall converter? Hesitation may be improved perhaps, but there will still be a mechanical delay. The MR isn't like a regular auto where the stall converter allows you go pretty much when you mash the throttle from a stop.

yea, i'm talking about throttle response from a stop, not while in motion. i can keep the revs high when in motion if i wanted good response. i've learned to blip the throttle too. i can literally blip it to 3K+ in 1st without the car moving at all...lol sst.

I think some of the responses here are confusing the "while you're driving, how to improve the throttle sensitivity response (which really is driving in S-Sport vs Normal)" with "flooring it from a stop, nothing happens for .5sec" The issue the OP is describing, is the delay while trying to take off fairly quickly from a stop while timing it to get in front of a car in an opening in traffic.

I've experienced this issue on my MR as well and almost got hit by the car I pulled in front of grandma style. I find some of the suggestions interesting because when nearly flooring it from a stop (without throttle blip or using launch control) I get the biggest lag on S-Sport mode (shifting manually) vs if it were in Normal.

However, what I've learned to do to avoid this issue, is to blip the gas pedal as I'm anticipating to go to get the clutch mechanism going. Then moments later when timing is right to go, there's no lag and the car just takes off. I don't see how any tuning device is able to trigger all the moving parts at such a short time from the time one hits the gas, disable any hesitation signal, then engage all the moving clutch parts all so that the car acts like a regular auto with a stall converter? Hesitation may be improved perhaps, but there will still be a mechanical delay. The MR isn't like a regular auto where the stall converter allows you go pretty much when you mash the throttle from a stop.

yea, i'm talking about throttle response from a stop, not while in motion. i can keep the revs high when in motion if i wanted good response. i've learned to blip the throttle too. i can literally blip it to 3K+ in 1st without the car moving at all...lol sst.

yep and increased wear and tear on the clutches too

car is great when in motion. Its the start from a dead stop that is annoying!

The way I get around this lag is I let off the brake way before I am planning on hitting the gas and let the car start crawling forward, then I get on the gas 1/3 of the way and there she goes.

Another technique that works too is when you are stopping, feel the brake pedal. Slowly press the brake as coming to a stop and hold it to the point right before it would start moving again.

Pressing it all the way gives you a different feel, like it dropped into N. Once you are in this "zone" all your starts from a dead stop will have some degree of lagginess.

car is great when in motion. Its the start from a dead spot that is annoying!

I loled at that. That could be a marketing tag line... for Subaru :p

So...... maybe I'm imagining things.... but...... I got a P1320 code the other day. So I cleared it with my Cobb AP, which essentially resets all the learned parameters as well. And immediately after that, I found that the SST was noticeably quicker to engage from a standing start. But this only lasted for so long, like maybe about a day's worth of stop-and-go city driving before it seemed to be "normal" again. This isn't the first time that the SST has seemed quicker to engage from a standing start after I've reflashed a new map, or just reset the learning parameters. So maybe there is an element to the sluggish SST that comes from ECU learning?

Ok I got one person to send me their rom to test this out and he just reported back the issue is gone.

Who else wants to try this out so I can get more data points?

Please PM me if you are able to send me your current rom and have the ability to flash it back to your car

- Bryan

Including 09 rom's in non-hex format?

Ok I got one person to send me their rom to test this out and he just reported back the issue is gone.

Who else wants to try this out so I can get more data points?

Please PM me if you are able to send me your current rom and have the ability to flash it back to your car

- Bryan

WOW! "Gone"? Like you press the pedal, and instant response?!?!?

Can't believe no one else has sent through their roms yet!

So Bryan helped me tweaked the SST maps and I did a whole day of city driving with full car load under stop and go traffic, I can tell the awkward pause/hesitation from dead stop associated with stock SST behaviour has disappeared, it engages 1st gear almost immediately with no lag, I can chirp the tires even easier than before as it goes into gear with momentum. I am re-adjusting my driving style as we're speaking because I was used to the lag, this is awesome tune for SST!

We are lucky to have such a knowledgeable and helpful tuner on the board contributing to our community. GST motorsports FTW!

Can't believe no one else has sent through their roms yet!

So Bryan helped me tweaked the SST maps and I did a whole day of city driving with full car load under stop and go traffic, I can tell the awkward pause/hesitation from dead stop associated with stock SST behaviour has disappeared, it engages 1st gear almost immediately with no lag, I can chirp the tires even easier than before as it goes into gear with momentum. I am re-adjusting my driving style as we're speaking because I was used to the lag, this is awesome tune for SST!

We are lucky to have such a knowledgeable and helpful tuner on the board contributing to our community. GST motorsports FTW!

You can actually thank Tephra more as he has been working with me to tweak and discover more things with the SST equipped Mitsus. He is the brains behind this for sure.

Since I have a Ralliart Sportback with SST now I am able to finally test things much quicker and easier.

I'd also like to repost that this tweak is doing away with a "protection" feature for the SST trans. However, the more data and testing I can do, the more I can find a "happy medium" between drivability and protection.

- Bryan

Uh, Bryan is this 'protection feature' the throttle cut in 1st gear I've been dealing with? If so, I want IN. When can I stop by?

What's your email Bryan?

I put an order in for a tactrix 2.0. I hope Bryan will still be generous to share his fix.

PM your email and I'll send you my ROM image file.

Wow, like I said before...tuning the SST removes this....
and yes, Jon tuned it for me and it feels great, infact the clamp of the 2nd gear even 'feels' torque-y. Bryan and Gunzo also are 2 other people who know how to do this....
maybe there are more people now.

Also a liquid which is a bit thicker, WillAll/RED, also engages the gears a bit faster, tuning made the most difference though.

bryan, i'm still waiting for your reply. did u get my rom btw ?

Ok I got one person to send me their rom to test this out and he just reported back the issue is gone.

Who else wants to try this out so I can get more data points?

Please PM me if you are able to send me your current rom and have the ability to flash it back to your car

- Bryan

Just pm'd you Bryan. I am close to your shop so maybe I can just bring the car by?

Hmm drove a bit today and started to drive up a hill and the throttle gave out. Taping gas to the floor gave me no results. Engine didn't rev at all. Came back and got about a block off the upward slant of the hill before it really gave out. Nothing. Restarted and was fine after that. No cells. Anybody have this?

I have an 09, and I have none of these issues. I get that the car has to slip the clutches from a stop...and it slips it in a controlled way to avoid excessive slippage (by not allowing the RPM's to go high)

I have this issue, and can't wait to have it tuned out or turned off/tweaked!

You can actually thank Tephra more as he has been working with me to tweak and discover more things with the SST equipped Mitsus. He is the brains behind this for sure.

Since I have a Ralliart Sportback with SST now I am able to finally test things much quicker and easier.

I'd also like to repost that this tweak is doing away with a "protection" feature for the SST trans. However, the more data and testing I can do, the more I can find a "happy medium" between drivability and protection.

- Bryan
Is this protection by any chance the throttle plate position limit for low gear?

I would also be able to try this out bryan. You and Tephra are always amazing me.

i dont have any delay right now.

I love my MR, but hate the hesitation
I live in Seattle, how do I flash the SST?

Thanks for your help,
Mike

I love my MR, but hate the hesitation
I live in Seattle, how do I flash the SST?

Thanks for your help,
Mike


Im in as well tell me what you need:rock:

Dang, this is awesome news! I'm willing to throw out my COBB Ap just for getting rid of the hesitation!

Hi, are we talking about the first gear TPS limit table or is it somthing else? can we still send our maps for a fix?

I don't have this issue at all. Obviously, there is very little power below 2500rpms, so, you just take that into consideration and rev high while your clutch is disengaged, then you let of till the toms setlle, then mash it. All in the period of half a second, this works flawlessly.

Hi, are we talking about the first gear TPS limit table or is it somthing else? can we still send our maps for a fix?


++1!! i got the first gear limiter off. Is this something new? Is this another mod where you just step on the gas and no delay? With the 1st gear tps limit, i have everything set to 100% but i need to brake boost to get off the line without delay. I would love to have no delay while driving normal around town. pls explain!!!

Ok I got one person to send me their rom to test this out and he just reported back the issue is gone.

Who else wants to try this out so I can get more data points?

Please PM me if you are able to send me your current rom and have the ability to flash it back to your car

- Bryan

Hi Bryan!

I have all the equipment (OP2, EcuFlash) and readiness to flash.
What's your email?