http://images.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0806_23l+135i_vs_evo+front_view.jpg

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0806_bmw_135_mitsubishi_evo_mr_comparison


Yeah, we know-on the face of it, this comparison looks ridiculous. What business do we have comparing an all-wheel-drive Japanese rally sedan versus a rear-drive German luxury coupe?

Simple: BMW's new 1 Series really is just that-the only one in its class. Its smaller stature and lower-cost bar comparisons with the Infiniti G37 and Audi A5/S5-plus, there's the BMW 3 Series for that. Though the BMW is available as a convertible, the 135i's 2+2 seating combination eliminates sports cars and roadsters like the Nissan 350Z and CLK350 (and the Z4 already has those covered.) What's left? We put together a matrix to compare (see it on page 4).

There we found the perfect 135i competitor: a 300-horsepower, two-door, four-passenger, rear-drive sports car that comes in at $28,000, but can hit the mid-30s fully loaded.

Then we sobered up and realized that nobody cross-shops a BMW against a Mustang. So we rolled up our sleeves and dug past some of the usual disqualifiers to focus on concepts like pure performance and fun factor.

Which is how we arrived at the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution MR-two extra doors, two fewer cylinders, and one fewer turbocharger, yes, but two more driven wheels, similar engine output, and class-leading performance. Most important, the Evo is the kind of vehicle a true driving enthusiast can honestly consider against the 135i.

Or is it? Does a Mitsubishi deserve to run with a BMW? Or is the question whether a brand-new Bimmer stands a chance against a rally-bred legend? Step beyond the matrix to find out.

"Maybe this was a mistake," come the murmurs from the test track. Part of the rationale behind this odd pairing was the BMW claim that the 135i sprints to 60 mph in 5.1 seconds, just a tick under what we've seen out of the manual Evo GSR. How do we explain our 135i consistently ripping off 4.7-second runs to 60, a full half-second faster than our Evo MR's fancy launch controlled sprint? We can't....

interestingg...

I dont like this review.... the MR beats the 135i on the track and still gets second place? Why in the world would they even compare these cars in the first place? They basically give the 135i the win because of how impressed they are with it in drag... which is a total joke. In drag racing you drive a car like you're trying to break it, but on the track, where in my opinion, it really shows what a car is made of. Ehhhh.... its all a matter of what you're buying the vehicle for I suppose... I plan on tracking my car, so naturally I would go for the evo. If I was looking for something supplement my "manhood" and just drive back and forth to the office, I would get the bmw.

I dont like this review.... the MR beats the 135i on the track and still gets second place? Why in the world would they even compare these cars in the first place? They basically give the 135i the win because of how impressed they are with it in drag... which is a total joke. In drag racing you drive a car like you're trying to break it, but on the track, where in my opinion, it really shows what a car is made of. Ehhhh.... its all a matter of what you're buying the vehicle for I suppose... I plan on tracking my car, so naturally I would go for the evo. If I was looking for something supplement my "manhood" and just drive back and forth to the office, I would get the bmw.

Thats fine, I took the 2nd place as a grain of salt really. Sure going fast in the straights is fun, but it can borings really fast. Improving your time at an autox event is where the party is at. :thumbup:

Did they say that Evo MR had a sharper steering feel?

I liked the write up overall, and I really like how they did the track diagram of the two cars.

I don't see how the Evo spanked it in overall performance and still managed 2nd place, but I guess they weighed in comfort fairly heavily and didn't really take looks into account. :-P

I'm really surprised to see that large of a gap between the two cars on the track. It wasn't even close. Clearly, the X is the superior track car.

I love how there is an actual review on a comparison that many of us have been making for months now.

I am especially happy that they are pointing out all the obvious facts as to why this comparison is pointless ;) My favorite quote though was "I'll give up a better interior for a car that to me performs better, looks better, and has a distinct personality-the Evo MR." Yep, that pretty much says exactly what I stated before. Do you go for individualism, or ride with the pack. Great write-up!

I don't understand how motor trend got the 135i 0-60 .4 seconds quicker than BMW claims and also motor trend has the slowest times 0-60 of anyone for the Evo. I think paired with the better handling is why the Evo killed it on the track.

I am especially happy that they are pointing out all the obvious facts as to why this comparison is pointless ;)

Like I pointed out in the other thread...for many people, they're going to cross shop these cars. YOU didn't for your own reasons.

My favorite quote though was "I'll give up a better interior for a car that to me performs better, looks better, and has a distinct personality-the Evo MR." Yep, that pretty much says exactly what I stated before. Do you go for individualism, or ride with the pack. Great write-up!

I agree with this part.

The only comparison between these two cars is the 300hp number. Beyond that, the 135i has more in common with the Mustang then with the Evo. I mean really, what is the magic I am missing here. The difference between a 2 door and a 4 door is huge. Even the price is different enough to warrant a separation in class. This was even stated in the article, and its something I personally have brought up several times. So once again, what am I missing?

Comparing to the 335i and 335ix made sense, this does not.

I don't understand how motor trend got the 135i 0-60 .4 seconds quicker than BMW claims and also motor trend has the slowest times 0-60 of anyone for the Evo. I think paired with the better handling is why the Evo killed it on the track.

The MR is slower off the line than a GSR so I could see why they're posting those times for the Evo.

I was actually contemplating getting a 135i, Evo X, M3, the new Camaro, and the new Challenger at one point. So seeing a comparison of all these seems really strange to most, but if I saw this I would have been stoked that someone else had the same taste in cars as me. That is the only reason I could see having a comparison of these two cars.

You're all missing the point. They're both sport cars, and fast and people like fast sport cars and they have similar power specs... (and while I could not agree more that they are not the same price at all, they have seemingly similar prices)

anyway, if you read through the specs on page 5 you'll see:

_____________________ BMW______EVO____
2.74-mi road course lap | 163.93 sec | 153.44 sec


I mean thats over 10seconds faster... LOL

But they picked the Evo #2 and since I base my life off of M/T I'ma have to go trade in... HAHAHAHAHAH I love my car.

the 135 is pretty quick for an automatic, i wonder how the stick would do. good comp.

You're all missing the point. They're both sport cars, and fast and people like fast sport cars and they have similar power specs... (and while I could not agree more that they are not the same price at all, they have seemingly similar prices)

anyway, if you read through the specs on page 5 you'll see:


I mean thats over 10seconds faster... LOL

But they picked the Evo #2 and since I base my life off of M/T I'ma have to go trade in... HAHAHAHAHAH I love my car.

yep...I'll be trading mine in as well. It's gettin' pretty lonely out here in Individualism Land...I gotta' run with pack baaaaah

baaah

You know what I don't get... why isn't the bmw compared to the Z? or with all these 135i-evo comparo's why haven't I seen any evo-350Z comparissons? (I know its off topic)

I mean the NISMO version comes with Brembo's and has similar hp ratings and costs the same as the MR will... is it just because its NA and not turbo?

^ I've seen comparisons done w/the IXs, 350z, & Mustang GT, but none w/the X yet.

First off let me qualify this post by saying I really don't know sh*t about track racing. :)

That being said, over on 1addicts.com they're claiming that the Evo had a major advantage due to the tires. The 135i comes stock with runflat tires which apparently aren't very good for the track, while the Evo comes with high performance track ready tires. Now I don't think anyone said that simply changing the tires would have actually made the 135i win, but they did think it would have been a little closer if the BMW had better track tires.

yep...I'll be trading mine in as well. It's gettin' pretty lonely out here in Individualism Land...I gotta' run with pack baaaaah

FYI they are only making 10,000 1 series BMWs this year. That includes the 128s and the convertibles. So the 135i is going to be just as unique as the Evo X for a while.

I personally don't see why anyone needs to justify their purchase by bashing an alternate option. Both cars are awesome and I'd be happy to own either one. Remarks like the one above are no better then the remarks you see in those Mac vs PC threads on other forums. Bias fanboys defending their chosen brand for no reason other then that's what they own. :ghey:

Dan

First off let me qualify this post by saying I really don't know sh*t about track racing. :)

That being said, over on 1addicts.com they're claiming that the Evo had a major advantage due to the tires. The 135i comes stock with runflat tires which apparently aren't very good for the track, while the Evo comes with high performance track ready tires. Now I don't think anyone said that simply changing the tires would have actually made the 135i win, but they did think it would have been a little closer if the BMW had better track tires.



FYI they are only making 10,000 1 series BMWs this year. That includes the 128s and the convertibles. So the 135i is going to be just as unique as the Evo X for a while.

I personally don't see why anyone needs to justify their purchase by bashing an alternate option. Both cars are awesome and I'd be happy to own either one. Remarks like the one above are no better then the remarks you see in those Mac vs PC threads on other forums. Bias fanboys defending their chosen brand for no reason other then that's what they own. :ghey:

Dan

I never get the tire argument, sure tires do play a big role on the track, but both cars are stock, isn't that fair enough? There is a reason why BMW made the 135i to run flats, and there is a reason why Evo X are running advans, it is because that is how both company intended them to perform with the tires they chose. It is like saying 135i lost because it lacks a DSG gear box and AWD, or the Evo X lost because it has 2 less cylinders, 1 less liter of displacement and one less turbo. It can never be a far comparison if you are nip picking.

FYI they are only making 10,000 1 series BMWs this year. That includes the 128s and the convertibles. So the 135i is going to be just as unique as the Evo X for a while.

I personally don't see why anyone needs to justify their purchase by bashing an alternate option. Both cars are awesome and I'd be happy to own either one. Remarks like the one above are no better then the remarks you see in those Mac vs PC threads on other forums. Bias fanboys defending their chosen brand for no reason other then that's what they own. :ghey:

Dan

10,000 is not a low number. Toyota only produces about 6000 Prius' a year for reference. Limited cars are produced in numbers around 3000 a year. 10k is considered a full production run. Considering that BMW only has the ability to manufacture 140k vehicles yearly (in the US), its likely that all of these cars will be built in europe, and shipped to the US. This is especially costly for a car in the 40's range.

I totally agree with your second statement though.

Hey Dan...I was just kidding. Your right the 135i doesn't belong in the Sheep Class. Just like the M3 and 335i t's a hi perf Beemer which disqualifies it from the Sheep catagory. When they say the 'pack' most people usually think of the 3 series. Every office manager, secratary, supervisor, jr. broker, real estate lady, stockbroker white collar mofo seems to be driving one...trading them in and buying another one. Now thats what most people consider the 'pack'

I have to say one more thing and that's I think the EVO X is really getting the short end' in all these 0-60 times. Our cars come super detuned/pig rich from the factory. If they came to us with a proper tune those times would surely be a bit faster. Does the 135i run that rich right from the lot? OR the STi?

Your right about the tire argument too..we have stud tires and they don't. But stock is stock

I personally don't see why anyone needs to justify their purchase by bashing an alternate option. Both cars are awesome and I'd be happy to own either one. Remarks like the one above are no better then the remarks you see in those Mac vs PC threads on other forums. Bias fanboys defending their chosen brand for no reason other then that's what they own. :ghey:

Dude, he was just making a joke off of what I said. And secondly I have to agree with the "individualism" comment because a BMW is a BMW. What I mean by this is that most people will see the one series and not think anything special of it. Not that I'm dissing the 1 series, but bmw's are bmw's because they are cars driven by wealthier people that are known as a "name brand" luxury car. Most people won't look at a 135i as being something super special, and don't get all pissed, but I think alot of people if they think anything will think the 1series as the "poor's man bmw"

However, I would gladly drive a 135i as I know its an impressive car, but your not gonna stand out and your not gonna attract any real sort of "special" attention. However, that being said I wouldn't buy a car on the "attention" that I get from it; but to be honest it was nice having a guy driving an Elise come check out my evo while filling up...

Anyway, point being that bmw's are a "standard" non-unique car to buy when you are gonna spend a good chunk of change on a car. This isn't bad, they have a reputation for being great to drive luxurious vehicles. The evo on the other hand comes from mitsubishi and your normal joe is not gonna be very impressed by your new mitsubishi and probably confused as to what idiot would spend that kind of money on a mitsubishi. However, your normal joe is also going to be the one eye-balling your car and wondering what it is as you sit next to him at the red light and then be surprised when he sees the mitsu logo as you leave him in the dust.

^true that...we're in a class by ourselves. AND the're in their class. We shouldn't be compared. It's pretty cool though when a car in our class spanks one of theirs':rock:yeah! da bears hehe

You're all missing the point. They're both sport cars, and fast and people like fast sport cars and they have similar power specs... (and while I could not agree more that they are not the same price at all, they have seemingly similar prices)

anyway, if you read through the specs on page 5 you'll see:


I mean thats over 10seconds faster... LOL

But they picked the Evo #2 and since I base my life off of M/T I'ma have to go trade in... HAHAHAHAHAH I love my car.
I think it's pretty obvious that's a misprint. They reference a 3.42 s differential in two seperate places. The time for the 135i was 156.34 and the Evo was 152.92.

Too bad that, when it came time for hot laps, all the BMW delivered just wasn't enough; in one lap around the 2.74-mile Reno (http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2008/suzuki/reno/index.html)-Fernley Raceway, the Evo put a blistering 3.42 seconds on the 135i.


http://images.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0806_25z+BMW_135_vs_lancer_evolution_MR+lap_diagram.jpg

I never get the tire argument, sure tires do play a big role on the track, but both cars are stock, isn't that fair enough? There is a reason why BMW made the 135i to run flats, and there is a reason why Evo X are running advans, it is because that is how both company intended them to perform with the tires they chose. It is like saying 135i lost because it lacks a DSG gear box and AWD, or the Evo X lost because it has 2 less cylinders, 1 less liter of displacement and one less turbo. It can never be a far comparison if you are nip picking.
I agree that modded vs stock is generally a stupid argument. However, I think it's at least reasonable to talk about mods that are relatively inexpensive and in no way shape or form could ever void the warranty. Tires fall under that category so I think it's at least something to consider.

Hey that's my home track...20 minutes from there damn. Such a cool track. I can't wait till spring:godance:

I agree that modded vs stock is generally a stupid argument. However, I think it's at least reasonable to talk about mods that are relatively inexpensive and in no way shape or form could ever void the warranty. Tires fall under that category so I think it's at least something to consider.


I would agree with the talking about mods that won't void warranty.

Especially since mods were a huge factor in my purchase of the evo. I just feel that the performance gap will increase as each car is modded. With equivalent mods (i.e. similar hp gains, upgrade suspensions...) the evo will remain very close to the bmw in drag competition but will perform better and better on a track.

Acceleration/power is much easier to upgrade aftermarket then handling and the evo will always outhandle the bmw and just more-so as the mods increase.

Dude, he was just making a joke off of what I said. And secondly I have to agree with the "individualism" comment because a BMW is a BMW. What I mean by this is that most people will see the one series and not think anything special of it. Not that I'm dissing the 1 series, but bmw's are bmw's because they are cars driven by wealthier people that are known as a "name brand" luxury car. Most people won't look at a 135i as being something super special, and don't get all pissed, but I think alot of people if they think anything will think the 1series as the "poor's man bmw"

Very well stated! I totally agree. All the BMW's look the same to me, with the exception of a M3. Those are the only ones that stick out.

^true that...we're in a class by ourselves. AND the're in their class. We shouldn't be compared. It's pretty cool though when a car in our class spanks one of theirs':rock:yeah! da bears hehe

:thumbup:

I agree that modded vs stock is generally a stupid argument. However, I think it's at least reasonable to talk about mods that are relatively inexpensive and in no way shape or form could ever void the warranty. Tires fall under that category so I think it's at least something to consider.

What do you consider low cost? Good tires are going to run you over 1k. Thats not cheap in my book, and should be added to the total cost of performance.

Very well stated! I totally agree. All the BMW's look the same to me, with the exception of a M3. Those are the only ones that stick out.

The Evo looked pretty similar to the Lancer but a lot of people bought those. If it's all about looks and appearances then yes, owning a BMW can be a problem. I'm not saying you have to love the way the 135i or any BMW looks, but I just think people tend to choose the arguments that reenforce their beliefs rather than keeping it as fair as possible.

What do you consider low cost? Good tires are going to run you over 1k. Thats not cheap in my book, and should be added to the total cost of performance.

Great tires cost over $1k. Good tires most certainly do not. But you're right that it has to be factored into the price along with insurance, cost to own, etc. There's a bit of guesswork in that process and at the end of the day you have to make a decision.

The people that feel the need to bash either car or make grandiose false claims about how these cars are completely unrelatable are morons, plain and simple. Many people may be firmly sold on one or the other, but that doesn't change the facts about what each car can and cannot do.

For all you guys that are waiting for the MR, be happy that they were extremely impressed with the MR's tranny!! And I must say, 0-60 in 4.7 is pretty impressive, although the car did some in at over $46K!!

The people that feel the need to bash either car or make grandiose false claims about how these cars are completely unrelatable are morons, plain and simple.

I dont think anyone has made any grandiose, or false claims. Feel free to point these out!

I just gotta' say if I offended any Beemer lovers I'm sorry. Truth be told BMW's used to be so cool. I know 'cause I worked at a Beemer resto' shop for 8 long years. loved them cars...had a few classics. Loved my job.

That was then when people really thought they were 'teh ultimate driving machines' and had to have them. I lost interest as soon as they became so mainstream and yuppiefied AND fricken' expensive. Make sense? Don't get me wrong they are still to die for on a certain level...just not my style..'cause I live in 'Individualism Land' now ehehe

I hear ya Moose. You know you have something special when you drive past a Lambo, Porsche, and a Ferrari and all the drivers are staring at you. Then, when you get out of your car they approach you and ask "Wow, what car is this? It looks great!" The X demands this sort of attention. Its a car that drives down the street and says "LOOK AT ME!", instead of "I'M A RAT RACER HEADING TO 9 to 5!"

One thing I have noticed since giving up my VIII and going to the X, is that I am getting a lot more attention for a much older crowd. This cars whole design seems to really reach out to the sports car enthusiast much more then the VIII / IX did. I think BMW used to be here, but as you stated, lost it when they gave up the ultimate design, for growth and profitability with lower cost cars that all classes can afford. This is something that is similar to what happened to the Hummer in my opinion. It used to be cool and rare to see one, now they show up every other block. No matter where I look today, you see BMW's from all years, and everyone from a high school kid, to the corporate CEO is driving one. This is a huge win for BMW, but a loss for the individual.

The Evo is also a car for someone that wants to be an involved driver, not just a passenger. The whole car is setup to hold you firmly in the seat, while pulling >1g through the back end twisties. The car revitalizes that boyish race feeling, but comes with the refined looks, and styling, of someone much more refined. The great thing about the X is this wasn't expected. Where as with the BMW the passengers have come to demand cup holders, soft classic trim packages, silent interiors, and free brake pads; the Evo owner expects none of these. So, when you open the door to find that leather, Nav system, bluetooth, the handling that was once reserved for cars >100k, and an interior that is much quieter then any other previous Evo, you are left blown away.

The reality is we should all feel honored that everyone feels that Mitsubishi has created a car that is being compared to cars costing quite a bit more for the same level of performance and options, yet cant hang with Evo when it starts to take a turn. This is truly amazing in my mind, and something that a few people have brought up, but hasn't been really pointed out.

I hear ya Moose. You know you have something special when you drive past a Lambo, Porsche, and a Ferrari and all the drivers are staring at you. Then, when you get out of your car they approach you and ask "Wow, what car is this? It looks great!" The X demands this sort of attention. Its a car that drives down the street and says "LOOK AT ME!", instead of "I'M A RAT RACER HEADING TO 9 to 5!"

One thing I have noticed since giving up my VIII and going to the X, is that I am getting a lot more attention for a much older crowd. This cars whole design seems to really reach out to the sports car enthusiast much more then the VIII / IX did. I think BMW used to be here, but as you stated, lost it when they gave up the ultimate design, for growth and profitability with lower cost cars that all classes can afford. This is something that is similar to what happened to the Hummer in my opinion. It used to be cool and rare to see one, now they show up every other block.

I agree with this, especially up here in Canada where the Evo X is the first Evo ever. I was talking to a friend and his neighbor has an Evo GSR, but I just shrugged, and went meh, since GSR here doesn't even have the option of HID, then he looked at me like I am crazy and said..."Its an evo...man"

:bowlol:

Wow, I didnt realize this was the first Evo to go into Canada! Thats awesome! However I kind of think the HID's are a necessary item too ;)

Funny thing is all the younger guys with Evo's around here have been pretty gracious and interested in the car. One smog shop I go to has 3 Evo 8/9 owners working there and gave me big props for dropping the Subies and jumping' to the X.

The X is still a pretty hard edge sword of a car I believe just not to the extreme of 8 and 9's. Personally those cars were never an option for me with the super bad roads out here. I'm all about damping and suspension because of those roads. When the MR comes out my new pals at DER Motorsports are gonna' sell me their Bilstein/Eibach's off of there MR. Not that the stock struts are bad at all. I actually really like the struts alot. They are a hellavu lot better than my stock STi's jokes

I have to say one more thing and that's I think the EVO X is really getting the short end' in all these 0-60 times. Our cars come super detuned/pig rich from the factory. If they came to us with a proper tune those times would surely be a bit faster.

Just like the tire argument, stock is stock right? :)

Dan

Hey that's my home track...20 minutes from there damn.

Have you actually driven Reno/Fernely? I'm down in Carson and have never been up there. However that's because I've never really had a car I would even consider taking to the track.

The BMWCCA is having a "driving school" event there June 27th-29th. I'm hoping that my 135i shows up in time so that I can break it in real quick and take it to the event. They say other, non-BMW, cars are welcome if you're interested. My Dad is planning on coming with me in his Lotus Elise, so you wouldn't be the only non bimmer out there. Here is the link if you're interested...

http://www.sierrabmwcarclub.org/

Although if you're an experienced track driver I doubt the school thing is necessary for you.

Dan

The great thing about the X is this wasn't expected. Where as with the BMW the passengers have come to demand cup holders, soft classic trim packages, silent interiors, and free brake pads; the Evo owner expects none of these. So, when you open the door to find that leather, Nav system, bluetooth, the handling that was once reserved for cars >100k, and an interior that is much quieter then any other previous Evo, you are left blown away

That would all be true IF the MR was actually available! However it doesn't even have an official release date yet which means the only Evo you can buy, at least here in the states, is a GSR with cloth seats, fake carbon fiber trim, no nav system, no bluetooth and no extra sound deadening.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... If the MR had actually been available then I would have got one of those instead. However the GSR just wasn't refined enough to make it an acceptable daily driver for me.

Dan

I was actually referring to the GSR I got, which did have all of those things. Well, everything except bluetooth, I added that factory option myself ;)

Something I found interesting


Wow, EVO smokes M3 (which is a racecar with four doors, no less) on racetrack.

152.9 EVO X MR (Advan A13)
154.2 BMW M3 (PS2)
156.3 BMW 135i (RE050)
158.0 MB C63 AMG (PZero Rosso)
158.6 Lexus IS-F (PS2)

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sports/112_0805_bmw_m3_lexus_is_f_mercedes_c63_amg_comparison
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0806_bmw_135_mitsubishi_evo_mr_comparison/index.html

EVO tires are UHP, they are notch below in grip than MP tires like Pilot PS2 or RE050.

Anyway, it's not about the tires, otherwise IS-F would be up there with M3 ... but it's not.


MR smokes the M3? :rock::thumbup:

yeah hard to believe. only uhp...that's why I'm rollin' on REO50' PP's.

I was actually referring to the GSR I got, which did have all of those things. Well, everything except bluetooth, I added that factory option myself ;)

Did you import the Evo? Or did you add all the options yourself? Because according to the brochure the leather seats and the nav system are not even an option on the GSR? Also the GSR definitely does not have the added sound deadening.

Dan

Hahahaha. Jacky you're right it is. I had to double check and make sure the tests happened on the same track. The Evo X 1.3 seconds quicker than the M3! Simply awesome. Down over 100hp, half as many cylinders and half the price? That is just pure class right there. So much for the tire argument. Back to the drawing board for BMW I suppose.

One thing that upsets me however is the whole 'well the Evo has a cheap interior compared to the BMW'

I had a chance to sit in the Evo X and the M3 sedan at this year's NY Auto show. The seats in the Evo were by far the most impressive of any car I sat in. I was sliding all over the place with just natural side to side movement in the M3, STI and Porsche.
I had to lean forward in the Evo X to move side to side at all, the positioning on the steering wheel, pedals, and shifter were place perfectly. All this with an akward body type, I'm 6'4" tall, long legs and short arms.

So if you ask me what car has the better interior I would pick the Evo X. As usual Mitsubishi focuses on the driver's interaction with the car and throw the money and attention at those items instead of pretty trims or a great looking console or glove box compartment.

Mitsu... Please start making the Evo more customizable instead of packaging everything, we are willing to wait for what we really want, we promise.

As for me... waiting on a Silver GSR with no fog lights, Xenon Headlights, Performance package (two piece rotors, MR suspension, MR Wheels), MR leather seats, large wing and no Fosgate stereo (it's needless extra weight for me). This would be possible in Japan but not here in the US.

Hahahaha. Jacky you're right it is. I had to double check and make sure the tests happened on the same track. The Evo X 1.3 seconds quicker than the M3! Simply awesome. Down over 100hp, half as many cylinders and half the price? That is just pure class right there. So much for the tire argument. Back to the drawing board for BMW I suppose.

.

I was amazed at the results too, but lets assume that the car was driven by different drivers, which it probably was, and weather condition were different. It would still put the Evo X MR in the same league as the M3 in terms of performance! That is pretty damn impressive :thumbup:

edit: EAT POOP TIRE ARGUMENT!

It took awhile for me to get the leather. I had to wait for Mitsu to release the patterns, then had the factory install the leather. It covered the doors, seats, and center console. They did a great job. I also had heated seats put in, but thats purely aftermarket. The GSR does come with NAV as an option for 2k.

Did you import the Evo? Or did you add all the options yourself? Because according to the brochure the leather seats and the nav system are not even an option on the GSR? Also the GSR definitely does not have the added sound deadening.

Dan

I saw that on the "build one" page on the Mitsubishi website. However it's not listed in the brochure as an option for the GSR. The website does list it as an "install kit" does that mean you have to install it yourself instead of having it installed at the factory like the MR nav system is?

Dan

What item are you referring too Dan? The NAV system? The NAV system is definitely an option for the GSR. Its 2k, and comes with a 30gb Music server. You dont have to install it yourself, it comes this way from the factory. So, the options I got on my car were:
Aero Kit
Nav
SSS
Sport Interior

Check it all out here:
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2008/mitsubishi/lancerevolution/100978945/options.html?action=1&x=74&y=20

Good to know. The wording on the Mitsubishi site made it sound like something you had to install yourself.


Dan

Yeah, I just tried to build on the Mitsu site, and it looked awful. Kudos to BMW for having something thats at least usable.

The reviewer is a F*cking pansy "ooOoo the steering is a bit stiff for daily driving and the seats hug too much OooOo and i'm a fairy..." i think both cars are awesome in their own ways but the reviewer is a pussy.

Even assuming that drivers and temperatures played a big part, 1.3 seconds is a huge gap on a 2.7 miles track. With those variables factored in favor of the BMW you are still looking at a dead heat (In a best case scenario) between the M3 and the Evo X... I will more than gladly take that :).

On the other end of the spectrum however is the possibility that the M3 test day was warmer than the Evo X test day and the driver was more skilled. I would think not but you can never rule anything out.

In all honesty i expected some hater-ism coming from an EVO site. I would expect the same on the other side if it were a BMW site. But come on. Both are performance cars, in the 30K range aimed at the same audience. They are comparable!
I am shopping both of these cars. I test drove the 135i last week. It was very impressive. Great quality inside and out. I don't know how many of you have been inside and evo8 or 9, but the interior is shitty. Its very cheap looking and feeling other then the recaro seats. the dash and instrumentation looks like shit. the EVOX is a slight step up though.Go ahead, be individual. The EVOX can pass for a base lancer to the untrained eye. So your only "special" to other enthusiasts. Same thing with a 135i. Looks like a BMW to most, but enthusiasts know is a twin turbo pocket rocket. Either way, if i was trying to pick up some bitches at the bar, you go tell them you drive a Mitsubishi, i will tell them I drive a BMW. LOL

I have not decided which car to buy, so dont try and say I am a BMW fan boy. LOL. I still have the shitty msp :(

The EVOX can pass for a base lancer to the untrained eye. So your only "special" to other enthusiasts.

I wouldn't be so sure about this. I'm always getting compliments on the styling or the paint job, even down to the rotors and brakes, i've been asked if its as fun to drive as it is to look at. All this is from people young and older, people who know its an evo and those who don't even have a clue what it is. I've even noticed a guy the other day staring at my Evo from his Boxter :-D.

I knew i'd get some attention with the Evo, but it its been alot more then expected.

Today, guy on a bike had a mild collision into the rear end of a stationary van. He was checking out my white Evo X... rather alarming, but he picked himself up and had an embarrassed smile.

Hahaha, nice Gumby. There are quite a few differences between the base lancer and the Evo on the exterior. This become especially true with the Aero kit attached. But even the base Lancer draws a lot of attention from a passer by. Thats just shows how unique the car design really is.

Kasedog,

I don't see much "hater-ism" on this site unlike most other forums. I'd go so far as to say 95% of the members here are top class, with a great positive attitude toward other vehicles. No one is denying the allure of both of these cars. I would be happy driving either one for that matter.

Impressing the ladies (bitches as you refer to them) is a hell of a lot easier in a BMW I will give you that. However, going back to our classy members... I have a feeling that is precisely one of the reasons they are Evo crazy.

I know this may sound foreign sir, but if a woman is shallow enough to let a brand name affect her decision as to what partner she will choose for an evening, it would mean she is rather low on self esteem. Which in turn would make her a bit easy with the fellas.

I would wager a large sum of money that I could court such a woman on a tricycle much less a BMW.

Haha, just having a bit of fun Kasedog.

They are very comparable vehicles, way before both were even released many of us were already comparing them as potential track vehicles. I think the 1 series fell a bit short of some of our expectations because of its weight. I thought it would for sure be around the 3000-3100lbs mark. We'll see if they release that ti version with a diet plan. But for an everyday drive it is a crap load of fun I bet.

One last thing however, to the untrained eye many BMWs get mixed up as well.

Cheers all.

^^haha a tricycle. I'd pay to see you try that hehe. I'd pull up on my nephews deluxe version Big wheel and cockblock you 'Mattel style blingin'


just playin'

^^
^^
I know this may sound foreign sir, but if a woman is shallow enough to let a brand name affect her decision as to what partner she will choose for an evening, it would mean she is rather low on self esteem.

I a woman is that shallow you can tell her that at least your Evo has a proper back-seat.

^^
^^


I a woman is that shallow you can tell her that at least your Evo has a proper back-seat.

Haha ya I can imagine

"After we mate, we can place our off springs in the back sits!"

In all honesty i expected some hater-ism coming from an EVO site. I would expect the same on the other side if it were a BMW site. But come on. Both are performance cars, in the 30K range aimed at the same audience. They are comparable!
I am shopping both of these cars. I test drove the 135i last week. It was very impressive. Great quality inside and out. I don't know how many of you have been inside and evo8 or 9, but the interior is shitty. Its very cheap looking and feeling other then the recaro seats. the dash and instrumentation looks like shit. the EVOX is a slight step up though.Go ahead, be individual. The EVOX can pass for a base lancer to the untrained eye. So your only "special" to other enthusiasts. Same thing with a 135i. Looks like a BMW to most, but enthusiasts know is a twin turbo pocket rocket. Either way, if i was trying to pick up some bitches at the bar, you go tell them you drive a Mitsubishi, i will tell them I drive a BMW. LOL

I have not decided which car to buy, so dont try and say I am a BMW fan boy. LOL. I still have the shitty msp :(
Hahaha, best post on the site so far!

I have not decided which car to buy, so dont try and say I am a BMW fan boy. LOL. I still have the shitty msp :(

If money is an issue then the Evo will probably be cheaper. My 135i, loaded with most of the options, is going to cost ~$48K after tax, license, docs & registration. Add in an invisible bra and a window tint and I'll probably end up closer to $50K. An Evo X MR with all the options is probably going to cost $3-4K less. (although it wont have as many amenities)

If money is not an issue then it comes down to a choice between a car that is awesome at the track but maybe a little rough around the edges for day to day driving (i.e. the Evo) or a car that's a great daily driver but will be a little slower around the track. (i.e. the 135i) You just have to decide which is more important to you.

Dan

If money is an issue then the Evo will probably be cheaper. My 135i, loaded with most of the options, is going to cost ~$48K after tax, license, docs & registration. Add in an invisible bra and a window tint and I'll probably end up closer to $50K. An Evo X MR with all the options is probably going to cost $3-4K less. (although it wont have as many amenities)

If money is not an issue then it comes down to a choice between a car that is awesome at the track but maybe a little rough around the edges for day to day driving (i.e. the Evo) or a car that's a great daily driver but will be a little slower around the track. (i.e. the 135i) You just have to decide which is more important to you.

Dan

48k:shades: Damn I would have gone for an M3 for that kind of loot. Your making me feel alot better about dropping 33k OTD for mine. Hey is this thread ever going to end? I love both cars...most do like both so who cares now. Sorry venting...........

A similarly equipped M3 would have been about $65K. That wasn't even an option. My cap was $50K and I came in just under it.

Dan

the 135i is better for day to day drivign, but after driving the evo x, i can say that its just fine to drive day to day, people make it out be some kind of lotus. It's really just fine to drive it on a daily basis. Not only that but a 135i isnt practical in the far north where winter lasts a good 8 months

People keep saying hte Evo x is a track car , blah blah blah. In reality the Evo is more versatile than the 135i. You can drive it around town in any weather, and pretty much any terrain. I could see why if some 40 year old people would rather choose the 135i because its more luxurious and more refined. But i think an average young guy, around 18 to 28 would probably have no complaints with the EVO's ride.

That being said, if lives somewhere with smooth pavement and nice weather year round like hawaii, than a 335i would be on my to buy list. I just can't warm up to the 135i, the side profile reminds me too much of an entry level car like a corolla or kia rio

Dinan releases software reflash for 135i !!!

384 hp @ 5700rpms and 421lb-ft torque. On a stock car. Now of course it costs alot. LOL

more info here. just thought it may help show there is more potential then some expected in the little bmw that could. LOL

http://www.dinancars.com/bmw/whats-new/dinan-engine-software-for-bmw-335-models

Not cheap is an understatement!!! $2000 is wowza expensive. Too bad they dont state whether or not this is WHP or crank. I am assuming crank though, based on the starting horsepower for the car, 84 hp sounds right for the increased boost pressure they run. Damn though, cost per horsepower on that is really bad. Looks like you need to get the oil cooler too, if it isn't installed at the factory.

wow not bad for crank hp/tq...those six's put out. 2 g's? Dinan' are bandits. Throw in their exaust and oil cooler and that price might make sense

What your paying for with the dinan tune is the ability to keep factory warranty. thats pretty much it. 135 comes with 2 oil coolers stock so u are good in that area. I guess its good for those that want to modd and still play it safe.
bmws are going to cost more to modd compared to mitsu's. both have great markets and great modds but japanese always have a shit load of stuff ranging from dirt cheap to madd expensive. bmw probably ranges from a little pricey to very expensive.

There are a couple of other places that make piggyback ECUs, like the ones available for the Evo, that are less then $1000. Like Malves said the Dinan flash is popular because it comes with a warranty that covers anything that BMW rejects as being caused by the flash. Also a lot of dealers do the flash, so if you do have a warranty issue then you can just drop it off and let them figure out which company has to pay for it. So basically the extra $ is for convenience and peace of mind.

I'm considering the Dinan flash for my 135i. However I'm going to drive it stock for a few months first and see if I really need the extra power or not.

Dan

There are a couple of other places that make piggyback ECUs, like the ones available for the Evo, that are less then $1000. Like Malves said the Dinan flash is popular because it comes with a warranty that covers anything that BMW rejects as being caused by the flash. Also a lot of dealers do the flash, so if you do have a warranty issue then you can just drop it off and let them figure out which company has to pay for it. So basically the extra $ is for convenience and peace of mind.

I'm considering the Dinan flash for my 135i. However I'm going to drive it stock for a few months first and see if I really need the extra power or not.

Dan

There is never enough power, do it man! :rock::thumbup:

Well I'd also like my bank account to recover a little from the purchase of the car, and the huge check I had to write to the IRS yesterday, before I drop $2k on an ECU flash. :)

Dan

sucks... what you mess up your taxes?

Not cheap is an understatement!!! $2000 is wowza expensive. Too bad they dont state whether or not this is WHP or crank. I am assuming crank though, based on the starting horsepower for the car, 84 hp sounds right for the increased boost pressure they run. Damn though, cost per horsepower on that is really bad. Looks like you need to get the oil cooler too, if it isn't installed at the factory.
You are right about it being at the crank. The 135i comes with 2 oil coolers so that's not an issue. And as has been stated several times before that $2k comes with a full warranty. If you don't care about preserving the warranty there are tons of cheaper options. However, the Dinan option is probably the best piece of engineering given that they have information about the ECU that no one else does due to their relationship with BMW.

Personally I would never do a reflash/piggyback on a $40k car without a high level of confidence that the warranty was in tact. I can't wait until the first person with an MR who has done mods has his warranty voided comes onto this site to tell us that it's going to cost him $10k to fix the fancy transmission.

Implying that it's a ripoff, though, is a very misleading in my opinion.

For $650 you can get an Ecutek re-flash that adds a bunch of power to your car, and you dont have to worry about your warranty. I have never seen a mitsu warranty denied due to flashing the ECU. Not saying it doesnt happen, just haven't seen or heard of it. They have no real way of checking it. Even the mitsu tools that the dealer has do not provide any sort of checksum validation etc. Even if they did, the checksum would be updated, and be validated, at flash time, so it doesnt matter. Even if you were concerned about warranty, you could flash your car with Ecutek, and buy an extended warranty that offers all the coverage for your changes, and still be under 2k. Good thing is Ecutek is in the same position as Dinan, and they get all the inside maps for the Evo. What you are really paying for is the Dinan name.

For $650 you can get an Ecutek re-flash that adds a bunch of power to your car, and you dont have to worry about your warranty. I have never seen a mitsu warranty denied due to flashing the ECU. Not saying it doesnt happen, just haven't seen or heard of it. They have no real way of checking it. Even the mitsu tools that the dealer has do not provide any sort of checksum validation etc. Even if they did, the checksum would be updated, and be validated, at flash time, so it doesnt matter. Even if you were concerned about warranty, you could flash your car with Ecutek, and buy an extended warranty that offers all the coverage for your changes, and still be under 2k. Good thing is Ecutek is in the same position as Dinan, and they get all the inside maps for the Evo. What you are really paying for is the Dinan name.
I didn't find anything about extended warranties on Ecutek's site. I know for certain that people have effectively had their powertrain warranties voided on their Evo's with reflashes so without an extended warranty for that I'd be very skeptical. Do you have a link?

And you aren't really paying for the Dinan name. You're paying for that fact that you can get it done at your BMW dealership by the dudes fixing your car. If anything goes wrong, it's covered. They figure out who pays for it, but it's covered. There is no one else affiliated with BMW that can offer you that.

And FYI, there are ways that you can detect reflashes on some ECU's. Automakers are adding encrypted flash counters to do just that. It may all be scare tactics, but several manufactures have made it know that they're either going to or already are doing that.

I definitely agree with your analysis that there is a strong benefit to having a re-flash done by the dealer. I guess it just becomes a cost analysis, and risk management issue. Extended warranties are offered by several different companies, and cover all sorts of different things. They can pretty much tailor quotes based on your needs. ECUTek doesnt provide this service, it is one you would get yourself. Do a google search for Vehicle Extended Warranties. Some are better then others, and there is some additional risk involved which means you could get a crappy warranty.

There are plenty of people that had blown trannies, bad synchros, and many other issues with the original Evo VIII. Most of those people had re-flashes, and I am not aware of any of them that didnt have the work covered from the factory, unless it was overly obvious that the issue was one of abuse. Even then, if the guy taking the car into the dealer to get work done, brags about his power output, and all the work he has done to the car, then its reasonable that he would get denied. This has nothing to do with the flash per se, just how you communicate your issue.

What's ridiculous is that when BMW made cars that were pretty slow for the money -- which it pretty much always did until a few years ago -- the reviewers always voted for BMWs for their subjectively superior handling and steering. Now that BMWs have artificial electric steering and relatively flabby chassis, the reviewers focus on the acceleration. it's like you must sign a blood oath to the former Nazis before you are allowed to review for the big car mags....

sucks... what you mess up your taxes?

Nah, this was my first year being self employed and I didn't pay any taxes at all until the end of the year. So instead of having a little taken out of every check like most people I had to write one big check at the end of the year. Totally my own fault, I should have paid quarterly.

Dan