Hey People,

So I'm going to be running AWD - B stock next season and i'm going to be setting up the car to be as competitive as possbile. (Mods will be different from my sig to match stock rules) I'm looking at getting some MR bilsteins and getting them revalved and I want to get a nice meaty front bar to take care of body roll. Questions i have, will it induce more understeer or will it be more planted and turn in will be better? Right now with the stocker advans the rotation in the rear is pretty easy to get it around so let me know from experience. Also let me know if you use any of these front bars and what you would reccomend.

Thanks

JD

You won't be running B-Stock with an aftermarket front swaybar...

Stock Rules

The following modifications are allowed in stock class:
• Appearance, comfort and convenience options, e. g. gauges, alarms, turbo timers, shift knobs.
• Removal of spare tire, tools and jack.
• Harness (seat belts cannot be removed), must be DOT approved.
• Any DOT approved tires (see rules for restrictions), including R-compounds, of any size (no modification of fender well, no rolling fenders, removing liners, tires can’t rub a hole into the liner either).
• Wheels (stock size only, offset within 0.25"/6mm of stock).
• Wheel spacers (resulting offset within 0.25"/6mm of stock).
• Lug nuts.
• Brake pads, speed bleeders.
• Shocks that maintain stock ride height, can be adjustable. See rule book for details!
• Front sway bar.
• Different alignment using factory adjustments (no camber bolts).
• Spark plugs.
• Air filter element can be removed or replaced.
• Cat-back exhaust.


You can run a front

my apologies, I misremembered.
I run B-stock as well (Tire). Even with winning an event in Novice class, I don't think I'm anywhere near a good enough driver to be approaching the limits of what my car can do. This is part of the reason I'll be keeping mine stock until I move up into STU (if I ever get good enough of course).

That said, I am interested in what ppl are running.

No worries, the whole classing thing throws me off as well, I know tires are going to be a savior next season, I'm hoping to do whatever I can to get up there. It's so different coming from a light underpowered rwd car to this beast on stock suspension.

Whiteline!

EDIT: I voted other and suggest Whiteline simply because IMHO they are a better price/performance/reliability combo than the other choices. You can also get other Whiteline suspension components to work with it.

For those who vote other please let me know which one and why?

Thanks

I voted Other...

If I remember correctly you have done 1 AutoX so far... true?

If so, forget the sway bar FOR NOW and learn to drive the car competitively. If you just NEED to mod your car in some way, do something else first. Suspensions are twitchy things and you may ending up doing more harm than good.

^^ +1

just because the rules say you CAN change the sway bar doesn't mean you should. Why are you changing it? What exactly are you trying to accomplish via an aftermarket swaybar? If you can't answer that yet, drive more, spend less, do some reading.

Get this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Tune-Win-science-development-tuning/dp/0879380713

I've done two full events so far but agreed, its a big difference, just looking for input for those who are more experienced and what they would recommend thats all. Seasons coming to an end and winter prep time is coming so just looking around, but point taken :)

If so, forget the sway bar FOR NOW and learn to drive the car competitively.

If there's one thing I've learned by going to a number of AutoX's this year, it would be to brake earlier, then brake earlier still and power through the corners. IMO the stock suspension is perfectly fine until your skills outpace what the car can do.

Stock Rules

The following modifications are allowed in stock class:
.
.
• Brake pads, speed bleeders.
.
.


This is the only area where I've noticed a deficiency so far. Maybe get some nice pads instead of the sway bar.

Edit: I have shitty generic pads

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe a stiffer front bar, used with the stock rear bar, would induce more under-steer. IMO, more under-steer = bad.

The way I'm looking at the rules for stock class, is none of the allowed modifications give any real performance gain. Maybe some of the DD commuter cars really NEED some stiffening up front, but the Evo X doesn't.

:yeahthat:
I had also heard that. I had also assumed that that is also why all of the kits allows 25%-50% (or more) stiffer rear tension than front. Some of the vendors actually state that the rear bar alone can correct the 'existing slight understeer' that was engineered into the X.

It might even be made worse in that most of the weight reduction is at the back of the car (cat back, spare tire, etc.) Wouldn't that make for an added imbalance at back end?

Of course - if you want that understeer, that is another story.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe a stiffer front bar, used with the stock rear bar, would induce more under-steer. IMO, more under-steer = bad.

The way I'm looking at the rules for stock class, is none of the allowed modifications give any real performance gain. Maybe some of the DD commuter cars really NEED some stiffening up front, but the Evo X doesn't.
+1

I would also advise against installing a larger front sway bar without a larger rear sway bar to compliment it.

I've auto-x'd mine twice now, and if I was going to do anything, i would get an adjustable rear bar. Seems to me the car has a slight understeer, as already mentioned.

Having said that, I know I can drop my times with more practice and no mods... there's a 'novice day' coming up, usually a good time to get in a lot of runs.

Points taken, plan on keeping it the way it is for next race and next season just going to pick up some MR wheels and run star specs and call it a day

I'm going with Hotchkis front and rear and the Swift R springs...

Whiteline!

EDIT: I voted other and suggest Whiteline simply because IMHO they are a better price/performance/reliability combo than the other choices. You can also get other Whiteline suspension components to work with it.

:+1:

I hear the whiteline walk quite a a bit...

I voted for the Works front bar because it's hollow. Even if it's only a 2lb weight savings, I'll take it. The hollow design doesn't give up much strength.

When I tinker with my suspension I want a hollow front bar and a stiff rear bar, so I'm thinking Works in front and Whiteline in back.

Sooo...Run out and get them and tell us how it works out. :thumbup:

OK, not really. Have you done anything with your alignment yet? If you're just starting out you should probably spend money on alignment before parts.
Make sure you have more negative camber in the front than in the rear. You may have to go to a race shop to get a decent alignment. Most alignment guys just do stock alignments on boring cars. If you ask for anything else they apply their usual technique and get results that still leave room for improvement.

just because the rules say you CAN change the sway bar doesn't mean you should...

I think this rule is left over from the '60s and '70s when most cars didn't have ANY swaybars. They also had a lot more sidewall, even on race tires. It's possible folks had problems with the combination of sidewall flex and body roll causing them to peel the tire off the rim, or even flip the car.

The front swaybar rule was intended to make wallowing musclecars safer without making them much faster. The SCCA has actually considered changing this and many other Stock rules that they consider obsolete. Like, your tailpipe is no longer doomed to rust and fall off every couple of years, so you may not be able to do cat-back exhaust in Stock one day. Factory brake pads don't suck like they used to, so they may be regulated more heavily one day.

...Or not. The SCCA has plenty to do changing the rules for other categories. The Stock rules are the least controversial, so there's little incentive to change them.

Anyway, if an experienced autocrosser is going to change something on their car, the front swaybar is rarely first.

been auto x for about 10+ years.

didn't bother changing the front. just found a biggest diameter hollow rear sway bar. my perspective, car is much more neutral with tad oversteer.

I dont know shit about cars. But I bought and installed the Hotchkis because I got a great deal on them.

go with whiteline their quality is top notch.

HOTCHKIS largest/stiffest/cheap/

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HOTCHKIS largest/stiffest/cheap/

/thread

:+1:

Thats what I was getting at