Official announcement here (http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2010/12/11597.html).

The FIA's World Motor Sport Council (WMSC) has approved new regulations which will see the 2.4 litre V8s currently used by Formula One teams replaced by four cylinder 1.6 litre engines from 2013. The decision to give the go-ahead to the changes follows lengthy discussions between the FIA, engine manufacturers and specialists.

The more environmentally-friendly units are expected to deliver a 35 percent reduction in fuel consumption, whilst providing the same level of performance enjoyed by today's F1 drivers. Energy recovery systems and additional energy management will be utilised to ensure this is possible.

“The WMSC approved the introduction of a new specification engine from 2013, underlining the FIA’s commitment to improving sustainability and addressing the needs of the automotive industry,” explained the FIA. “Following dialogue with the engine manufacturers and experts in this field, the power units will be four cylinders, 1.6 litre with high pressure gasoline injection up to 500 bar.”

Rev limits on the new engines will be reduced from the current 18,000 rpm to a maximum of 12,000 rpm.

An additional revision to the 2013 regulations will see a drop in the number of engines at drivers' disposal. Currently they can use eight units a season without penalty, but this will be limited to five in 2013 and reduced to four for subsequent seasons.

So the world's greatest racing series is dropping the super high end V8 18,000RPM engines for something more practical, but just as potent. Not only that, but they are also putting more emphasis on reliability. Whats this mean for us? Nothing immediately, but in the next couple of years, we'll have hundreds of millions of dollars worth of R&D thrown at coming up with way to make small displacement, high boost, high revving engines better.

F1 tech has been trickling down to the mainstream auto makers and after market for decades. It's nice to see that effort shifting to something that affects the average joe :)

Ferrari's gonna be PISSED :D Advantage Cosworth!

How awesome would it be if Mitsubishi, and even Subaru entered teams in the next couple years and started supplying the new F1 engines :D

i read this a few days ago and first thing that came to my mind was F1 car with a 4B in it...

Why is Ferrari going to be pissed? I'm confused

Ferrari never made good turbo cars besides the f40 which a lot of people consider less than stellar.

I think the switch is lame. Its like moto gp dropping engine size to make it safer, all it did was move the power band around, even faster bikes and more difficult to control.

A turbo 1.6 is going to give teams tons of problems. Yeah, it will still make close to 1000hp but if you think the engine use regulations are tough now for how long they have to last as well as gear boxes ever team is going to be having 20 grid spot penatilities almost every race.


We'll see if this actually happens or happens then switches back to n/a.


Will be interesting to see none the less.

Was Ferrari not competitive back in the day when they used Turbo's in F1?

The turbo days of the 80's did see Ferrari not in the top 3, but this change back to Turbo engines is just dumb. They were making over 1200hp on 1.5L's 2 decades ago running 50-60PSI. I actually think this is less safe than the current formula, but my opinion is not important so lets see how things go in 3 years.

The turbo days of the 80's did see Ferrari not in the top 3.


Thanks, couldn't remember.

Was Ferrari not competitive back in the day when they used Turbo's in F1?

no one could touch the McLarens of Prost and Senna from 84-90... turbos went out the wayside in 1989

Ferrari deffinately makes the current f1 engines that are great and I cant think of any that have actually let go during a race this seaon.

BMW sauber is even using ferrari powerplants now.

Why is Ferrari going to be pissed? I'm confused

Ferrari does suck at making making small engines. And they also made huge bank over the past several years selling their F1 engines to most of the other F1 teams. Until this last season, they supplied over half of the F1 teams with engines, which make them over $1mil each. Considering each team was buying 16 engines per season PLUS any they want for testing, thats a huge chunk of change for them.

Since Cosworth returned this last year and started selling 'cheap' engines (just over 1mil each), and destroyed Ferrari in terms of both reliability and performance, I think the only reason that the FIA is letting this happen is basically because Ferrari is throwing in the towel. It's been a long rumor that Ferrari was paying off FIA to help keep them at the top for years. But this year, Cosworth came back strong and had an engine failure rate of just 1.6% (2 out of 152), while Ferrari's failure rate was 6.1% (7 out of 114).

To add insult to injury, not only did Ferrari have the worst reliably, but they also performed pretty poorly. The smallest engine provider, Renault, who only supplies engines to two teams, had their engine in the car that won the driver's championship. While one of their other cars (Lotus) kept the Ferrari leader (Alonso) from overtaking through the entire last race of the year.

1 million for 1 motor.....WTF

The numbers aren't public, but it's estimated that the top teams spend $125m-$250m per season just on engine development.

Add in all the chassis and aero engineering, the teams, transportation, etc and its not the cheapest sport in the world ;)

That wasn't a Lotus holding up Alonso, it was a Renault ;)

I'm excited to see the change, but I'm kind of worried it's just going to turn into a big mess. Massive changes every few years aren't a good thing, the teams need to throw in TONS of R&D money for new changes, which sorta defeats the purpose of going to a smaller engine.

Interview from 2006 with Peter Sauber

so Peter, what are your thoughts on the proposed change from the current 3.0L V10 to the new 2.5L V8

... thats fine, we'll just make them spin to 22,000rpm and make the same power

This pretty much sums up F1. They just spend as much money on competing as they need to... its all a bunch of BS when they say they mandate these changes to keep costs down for the smaller budget teams. Just cause you dont get to use as many engines or a smaller engine does not mean it doesnt take massive R&D to develope a brand new formula.

I think the switch is lame. Its like moto gp dropping engine size to make it safer, all it did was move the power band around, even faster bikes and more difficult to control.

:+1: im sick of the pussification of the highest levels of racing in the name of enviromentalism and cost. the cheapest thing to do is to stay with the current engines. at least MotoGP are moving back to 990cc's

that totally sucks. hopefully they bring back qualifying engines too and itll be fun watching to see who can actually finish a race.

:+1: im sick of the pussification of the highest levels of racing in the name of enviromentalism and cost. the cheapest thing to do is to stay with the current engines. at least MotoGP are moving back to 990cc's

actually the 'pussification' happened when they switched to the v10's and allowed traction control. the past few years have been moves back in the right direction imo. power output will be the same and they'll rev much lower. the bands wont be as wide, so it'll be more challenging for the drivers to stay in optimal gear.

People always seem to refer to changes in the automotive world as "pussification" or some variant of that term. This is the case even when the change is in the right direction. A smaller engine would also mean lighter and more nimble. A more fuel efficient engine also means you can carry lesser fuel and hence save even more weight.

A good analogy is how people from the CT9A/4G63 communities also refer to the CZ4A/4B11 as a "pussified" combination......even when its winning competitions and proving itself. It would be foolhardy for anyone to assume they know more about these cars, or any others for that matter, than the ones designing it.


I'm not saying that the designers/rule makers are always right, but this move definitely seems to be in the right direction for many reasons. Besides, the best way to keep competition alive is to keep evolving with the times/technology. Its ironical that we, the bunch that drive a car called the "Evolution", actually have something against its very essence.

Couldn't agree with you more Cat, and besides the fact of previously stated "pussification", this means alot for the everyday driver. Everybody who knows racing knows how the trickle effect works. A league is hit with a new rule, teams develop a technology to compensate for rule, tech gets patent, team sells patent (or begins employing tech) to pay for their racing bills, tech gets into hands of consumer (that's us). Whether or not this is a good thing for the league, it is a good thing for us. 2-5 years after implementation of rules, we'll see cars like our Evos with motors halved in displacement, making more power, and with Prius like fuel economy.
So all the nay-sayers, please, I beg of you, show me how this will negatively affect us?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lceohydz6Z1qa1id2o1_400.jpg

I am very happy!

F1 @ Monza.... live on speed channel now!

ummm we at work man....

it'll be more challenging for the drivers to stay in optimal gear.

exactly.....which means there will be less "action" on the track. passing will be minimized because drivers wont be able to use the motor to overcome a less than perfect turn. it will be boring.

just look at the last few years of 800cc MotoGP racing with all the electronic aids.... been some of the least exciting racing on the planet. dont get me wrong it had its moments, but over all it was boring...odds are history is going to repeat itself in F1

it already did. f1 allowed electronic stability control for years, and the same teams kept winning and it got boring. They took it away, and everything got interesting. Adding driver challenges makes for better racing. The best drivers who make the fewest mistakes will prevail, and everyone who makes a mistake will pay for it. how is that boring?

How awesome would it be if Mitsubishi, and even Subaru entered teams in the next couple years and started supplying the new F1 engines :D

They don't even want to spend the money in WRC, what makes you think they want to compete in F1 which is 100,000x more expensive?

I'm so glad I stopped watching F1 when Schumi retired. It was the right time. Before all the scandal/drama and downsizing of the engines.

Could be wrong but f1 turbo era was awesome? I heard stories about how Senna perfected his throttle stabbing on turns and how it was .1 seconds faster than any driver. Yaw + extra rev for turbo made watching those clips great.

Could be wrong but f1 turbo era was awesome? I heard stories about how Senna perfected his throttle stabbing on turns and how it was .1 seconds faster than any driver. Yaw + extra rev for turbo made watching those clips great.

But they were 6s & 8s with turbos. Few 4s.

I have nothing against 4 cyls OBVIOUSLY. :D But the fact that they are doing it as more of an Eco-friendly move makes me sick to my stomach.

But they were 6s & 8s with turbos. Few 4s.

I have nothing against 4 cyls OBVIOUSLY. :D But the fact that they are doing it as more of an Eco-friendly move makes me sick to my stomach.

just cause they tell you its for the environment means nothing. these engines will be flame throwers. its a good thing that they are going to 4's that cuts a bunch of weight off and the engines will be just as powerful as the old 8's.

just cause they tell you its for the environment means nothing. these engines will be flame throwers. its a good thing that they are going to 4's that cuts a bunch of weight off and the engines will be just as powerful as the old 8's.

:+1:

just cause they tell you its for the environment means nothing. these engines will be flame throwers. its a good thing that they are going to 4's that cuts a bunch of weight off and the engines will be just as powerful as the old 8's.

Yeah, you got a point there. :+1: