Your input requested: Next stage for my MR

[qwertymess]

Originally Posted by morricus

It is. I usually let off a bit, but keep pressing on. I think the difference is that it has been an absolute blast-furnace here in IL (100 degree temps with ultra-high humidity) and I have more power and all stock cooling...while in Northern CA its cooler, he has upgraded radiator and oil cooler with less power and still have issues. I can see why there is concern. I'm impressed with my car handling the gross amounts of heat this summer. Joe's car should be doing the same, if not far better based on his mods.

ok well this is a big hint i would guess.

Both of you have the same issue:

Theory time:
Personally i dont think an upgraded oil cooler, or an upgraded radiator do that much of a drastic temp change. If anything they can keep the temps lower for a longer amount of time, but will eventually heat up to the same temp. You are just slowing down the process.

a head gasket can now be put aside, but not yet out of the woods

the only thing that is left is the SST temps

Ortho, are tracking temps of the SST itself?

What are the threshold temps of the clutchs and tranny itself?

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by qwertymess

#3 Very strange. I would think the complete opposite. On the straights is were it cools the most, at least for me, and the more technical, heavy braking, slow parts are were im heating up.

Yup. Check out the video. You can watch the temps climb during the straightaways and drop in turns when I'm off the throttle.

#4 What morricus said. I dont know if it made a difference or not, but pushing more air into that area is better than nothing. I would highly suggest taking them off. (Just the metal pieces)

will try this. What is the consequence of having those things off the hood if you are driving in the rain?

#5 by blasting the heater on, it will cool the coolant temp by a bit, and if you see this is working for you, may be another clue to the problem.

Ugh, so hot already in the car during a 90+ degree day... No ideal, but I'll give it a try next time.

So the coolant temps have been measured by ECU via OBDII- Check
Coolant temps match inboard display- Check
You have done everything in your power to reduce temps- Check

yup, check, check and check

A faulty sensor can be ruled out.

I did wonder about this, but the overheat issue is ONLY at the track, on a high temp day. It seems like the temp sensor is working appropriately.

A small leak will not produce this issue. (Small as in a couple of drops a day)

have you checked to ensure the water pump is in good working order?
no leaking or any signs of leak anywhere correct?
Do you smell coolant off your engine bay? (Cant miss it)
See here for water pump: http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1760

Do you have anything that checks the temps of the SST?
And if so, are they inline with what they are supposed to be?

i dont want to point the finger at something and say this is a head gasket problem. For those of us that track this car, we are beating the living snot out of them on the track. I cant see a head gasket running very long with that amount of heat on the track without completely destroying itself.

Although, def. would check it regardless. Cant hurt.

water pump is something I will ask GST about. I have found zero signs of leak anywhere, and absolutely no smell of coolant anywhere.

I have a temp probe in my SST, and it runs HOT. Hotter than what SSP claims that their cooler will drop the temps down to. I'm one of the only people around here with a temp probe in their SST, so it's difficult to say if what I'm getting is normal or not. Until Bryan recently did a 'tweak' to my SST mapping, I was only 2degrees C away from overheat. Now I'm about 6 degrees away. Thanks for all your help!

[chetrickerman]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

will try this. What is the consequence of having those things off the hood if you are driving in the rain?

None.

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by morricus

It is. I usually let off a bit, but keep pressing on. I think the difference is that it has been an absolute blast-furnace here in IL (100 degree temps with ultra-high humidity) and I have more power and all stock cooling...while in Northern CA its cooler, he has upgraded radiator and oil cooler with less power and still have issues. I can see why there is concern. I'm impressed with my car handling the gross amounts of heat this summer. Joe's car should be doing the same, if not far better based on his mods.

I'm not sure I totally agree that your car is making more power than me. The car is definitely faster than a stock turbo car. My buddy driving in the novice group was pulling away big time from the other stock turbo X MR cars in his group down the straightaway. Another friend that used to have a X MR agrees my car is much faster than his stock turbo (tuned). I can also finally confirm my top speeds down the straightaway DID increase from 125 to 130mph. Don't go off the GST dyno numbers. I know people are fixated on that, but the car really is much faster than stock.

Originally Posted by qwertymess

the only thing that is left is the SST temps

Ortho, are tracking temps of the SST itself?

What are the threshold temps of the clutchs and tranny itself?

Yup. I have a probe linked to a defi oil temp gauge that will record peak temps. The slowdown light is triggered at 130C. I aways hit a minimum peak temp of 120C. I peaked at 123C the last time out.

[qwertymess]

Does the ECU log SST temps? via evoscan?

i really want to throw out the possibility of it being the motor itself.
Regardless of GSR or MR, we all have the same motor
so, in saying that, the major difference is the SST

From what i know, the SST produces a tremendous amount of heat compared to a normal clutch system. This is primarily due to the clutches slipping, and watching your video, i can only imagine whats going on in there.

Now the bigger difference is how it is laid out.

I can put my car and Morricus's car side by side

MR and GSR

you will quickly notice that the SST takes up any and all available space that was left compared to the GSR

Not only that, but the motor is essentially on top of this heat producing transmission

Were there is very little room in the GSR engine compartment, there is even less in the MR.

Now dont get me wrong here:

I really like the MR. At first i was very non appreciative of it, up until i started racing morricus on the tracks, and it became very apparent just how much faster he is shifting. It makes me feel like it takes a full year to shift into gear, and he is already barreling down the front straight 2 gears higher into it.

So in saying the above: Dont be discouraged by this. Its a setback that im sure can be remedied, but first need to find were the bottleneck is.

Doing a bit of research on SST Thresholds and see how this would effect everything overall.

As a side note: Are you planning to upgrade the SST clutches any time soon?

[morricus]

gottcha...didn't mean to insinuate your car was a slouch! I actually don't really know how much power my car has. I just asked AMS to max out the stock turbo with a 100 octane tune but maintain 100% reliablity.

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by qwertymess

Does the ECU log SST temps? via evoscan?

i really want to throw out the possibility of it being the motor itself.
Regardless of GSR or MR, we all have the same motor
so, in saying that, the major difference is the SST

From what i know, the SST produces a tremendous amount of heat compared to a normal clutch system. This is primarily due to the clutches slipping, and watching your video, i can only imagine whats going on in there.

Now the bigger difference is how it is laid out.

I can put my car and Morricus's car side by side

MR and GSR

you will quickly notice that the SST takes up any and all available space that was left compared to the GSR

Not only that, but the motor is essentially on top of this heat producing transmission

Were there is very little room in the GSR engine compartment, there is even less in the MR.

Now dont get me wrong here:

I really like the MR. At first i was very non appreciative of it, up until i started racing morricus on the tracks, and it became very apparent just how much faster he is shifting. It makes me feel like it takes a full year to shift into gear, and he is already barreling down the front straight 2 gears higher into it.

So in saying the above: Dont be discouraged by this. Its a setback that im sure can be remedied, but first need to find were the bottleneck is.

Doing a bit of research on SST Thresholds and see how this would effect everything overall.

As a side note: Are you planning to upgrade the SST clutches any time soon?

All very good points. I do not have the capability of logging SST temps through evoscan, but others do. My info is taken off of what is available through the CAN lines that AiM Solo DL is programmed to log.

I was not planning on upgrading my SST clutches until a) they fail on me or B) the TCU is cracked. I honestly don't want to put any more significant money into this car since it's days with me might be numbered at this point. My buddy with the X MR that has since moved onto an e36 track car and 2012 GTR never had problems with overheating unless he was drafting behind a car for long periods of time. He ran with a stock turbo. He's a much better driver than me and beat on the car harder than I do. The only aftermarket cooler he had was the SSP SST cooler.

Originally Posted by morricus

gottcha...didn't mean to insinuate your car was a slouch! I actually don't really know how much power my car has. I just asked AMS to max out the stock turbo with a 100 octane tune but maintain 100% reliablity.

No offense taken at all, man. I should probably stop posting my GST dyno numbers because all they do is cause more controversy. With you running on a 100octane, you're probably at similar power levels to me, BUT I'm likely making more power at the top end, where more heat is being generated as well... just my thoughts....

[orthojoe]

One thought about the SST theory:

I can almost always get my tranny temps from 120+C down to 70C by running the SSP cooler fan while the car is parked between sessions. So, while the temps of the SST are able to be dropped fairly low by cooling after a session and run consistent (high, but below threshold) from session to session, the engine temps continue to rise throughout the day.

[razorlab]

Back when I was tracking my Evo 8 at Thunderhill, with a little more power than you are in your 10, when I actually got fast with the car (low 2:0X's) I would do 1 warm up lap, 2 hard laps, 1 slower cool down lap and if I felt like it, 1 more hard lap. Most of the time I would do 1 warm up, 2 hard laps, then 1 cool down and then pit.

I started doing that because A. I like my car and B. I actually got slower if I keep going full-tilt as EVERYTHING got hot, motor, tires, brakes, etc, so it wasn't worth it. I also made it a habit after I started melting something every track day. Melted transmission 4th gear, melted brakes, melted head gasket, etc.

Your MR is a good amount heavier then my Evo 8 so it probably produces that much more heat.

The Evo creates a huge amount of heat every where. It's a heavy car, it makes good power, the turbo creates an insane amount of heat under hood, the weight taxes tires and brakes. It's a great track car but you have to respect those things. It shines with short gung ho laps, then treat it nicely and let it cool down and get back out for the next session.

The other thing I got in the habit of doing is after getting into the pits after a session I would lap it slowly through the paddock all the way to the gas station and back again and then park, don't just park it and let it heat sink like a sob.

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by razorlab

I would do 1 warm up lap, 2 hard laps, 1 slower cool down lap and if I felt like it, 1 more hard lap. Most of the time I would do 1 warm up, 2 hard laps, then 1 cool down and then pit.

I started doing that because A. I like my car and B. I actually got slower if I keep going full-tilt as EVERYTHING got hot, motor, tires, brakes, etc, so it wasn't worth it.

That is interesting to know. You're not the first guy on this thread to report this habit. Is this a fairly common thing in the advanced groups? I can attest to your comment on B because I always (and so does everyone else) get slower as the day goes on. Lap times are not the most important thing for me, though. It's about having fun out there and if I can only have fun every few laps, then that would be a bummer...