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AMS 750xp vs. Stock frame options?

16K views 39 replies 14 participants last post by  UT GG EVO X 
#1 ·
Hey guys,

Just wanted to get some feedback from all the gurus on this site. I'm trying to narrow down my turbo choices for an upcoming upgrade. My plan is to stick with the stock block and 91 octane. I'm definitely ok with a conservative tune to keep the thing alive. Currently the car has full bolt ons and is making about 340whp/340wtq.

Not wanting to spin the crap out of a smaller turbo and risk anything on pump gas, my choices have been primarily focused on the FP Red (with this latest pricing update however....) Map EF3, and the elephant in the room, the AMS 750 XP kit. One thing that is moving me towards the AMS setup is that I haven't purchased a downpipe yet, so i'm not tied to a stock frame option.

This is not my daily driver, but I'd like to retain decent spool characteristics. From what I have read, all 3 options above can be tuned to about 420whp and 350tq to keep the block intact, which is perfectly fine for me. My main concerns and reliability, longetivity and making sure everything is done once, and done right.

Do you guys think the AMS 750 XP would be a good idea on the stock 2.0 block as far as spool is concerned, or am I better off going with a RED/EF3 + AMS downpipe since my goals aren't that crazy high on stock block? I know the draw to the stock frames are that you can build it piece by piece - but if the AMS is a more solid option overall I'll just save up and do the whole shebang.

Thanks guys!
 
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#2 · (Edited)
You'll still have decent spool on the 750 XP on stock block (think 4200ish - 3rd gear), that is what I would go with.

If you plan to do Auto X at all though, skip out on the XP and the EF3 and go with an EF2 or a Green sized turbo.

Bottom line is, the 750 XP is pretty much the best all around turbo kit you can get, hands down as far as I am concerned. Unless having sub 4k spool is a huge concern, there is no where else to look IMO.

EF3 is going to spool pretty close to the 750 XP, and the FP Red only slightly faster.
 
#3 ·
All depends what you want to do with the car, MAP is amazing and will take real good care of you though. Props for having a good/readable post, those are getting pretty rare around here sadly...
 
#4 ·
Thanks guys -- the car used to be my daily driver, but recently i've had the fortune of moving into a role where I get to drive a company car during the week. It's not uncommon to go for 2 weeks at a time before I can hop back in the Evo nowadays, so now that it gets a rest every now and then though it'd be a good idea to start some bigger projects since I can techinically be ok with some inevitible downtime.

That being said, the car will primarily be just to drive around town in and enjoy it performance wise. I may look into doing some beginner track events with friends at some point, but I'd like to keep this car for quite some time and not totally abuse it/extract every last bit out of it by doing track days. I'd gladly trade a bit of spool for a bit more top end...as long as it's safe of course haha.

And yes, the MAP group are a great bunch of guys definitely no worries there!

Really appreciate the great feedback so far fellas. Definitely helps my tossing and turning at night to hear some experiences and thoughts!
 
#5 ·
Well in that case, it goes to budget. I'm not 100% sure on prices because I'm too lazy to go look but I'm pretty positive you will save quite a bit of money going with the EF3 over the 750. Both companys have incredible customer service and know what they are doing, both turbos are proven and both within the same category really. So now it's just personal preference.
 
#7 ·
the AMS kits are expensive, and as Happy made clear, expensive for a reason. Its the go to kit for people road racing, doing time attacks, etc. AMS's name speaks for itself. If youre only looking for a modest/safe turbo upgrade without building the block, a green/ef2 is probably a decent idea. the red/ef3 would require holding back to save your block.

Probably best to talk to whoever would be doing the tune and discuss it all with them as far as goals, budget, etc.

If youve got the budget for the AMS kit Happy said it all. If not, consider the MAP/FP solution. Although FP's are getting pretty pricey.

4-d just did a 750xp on his built 2.2l. May be a good idea to check that thread out.
 
#18 · (Edited)
so why is a t4 spooling faster than t3's? that seems counterintuitive to what i know about this stuff (which is limited compared to some of you guys most likely).

5858 was one of my considerations. would love to hear why you feel that way. would be great info.

that should run about $3k before intake and extras.
 
#20 ·
it spools faster because it's a twinscroll t4, vs single scroll t3

And I think the 5858, AGP TS housing, and ETS TS T3 kit would be excellent because it gets you the best of all worlds. Precision doesn't make a twinscroll housing for the 5858. Only AGP has them custom made, however the design of their manifold is lacking in comparison to that of ETS. So you take the already good spool of the 5858, add twinscroll to it for even faster spool, plus the power capabilities of the ETS top mount manifold... and win :)

Also, it would be a bit more than $3k.

Precision 5858 Ball Bearing: $1500
AGP Twinscroll T3 Housing: $220
2x Tial 38mm EWG: $500
ETS Kit parts needed: $2150

Total: $4370 approx.
 
#22 · (Edited)
in theory the AGP should scroll faster because of the manifold design. it would restrict top end but spool faster, right?
I don't think so, no. Their runners have a very sharp and abrupt 90* turn into the turbine housing, where as the ETS manifold uses smooth bends to shoot the exhaust gas straight into the turbine housing. There's a lot more to it than just a short runner design, like AGP focused on. Longer runners can spool faster if designed properly! They are both twinscroll, yes, but the ETS design is better.

Also, the ETS manifold can be made with a 1.25" runner option for even faster spool than their typical 1.50". 1.25" runners are good for 6-650whp, so more than enough for the 5858 :)
 
#23 ·
I would vote for a well tuned EF2 or EF2.5 or EF3 setup depending on spool vs power requirement in your build. With the 750 Kit, a downpipe isn't the only thing that needs to change. If you have an intake or UICP, those will need changing too.

For a stock block, I think the 750 will be under-utilized, even more so than an EF3, especially on E85. An EF2/2.5 tuned to its full potential by a good tuner is the way to go to keep cost and reliability in check and the power delivery enjoyable for a DD IMHO.
 
#36 ·
Thanks KickAss! This thread seemed to take over a life of its own, but I guess that's the norm around here. Personally not interested in any offerings besides the ones listed in the OP- but after thinking about it today the price and underutilization of the 750 kit may not be the smartest move if staying stock motor. Built and above, AMS all day. Looks like the EF series may edge it out in my situation.
 
#28 ·
So the new version is single scroll? I didnt know you can select different options (besides the .62 vs .82 trim) or whatever the options are on their site. I'm 100% going with a 2.4 stroker/bore this summer. And im set on the 750xp kit. Will be ordering that in May. I want 600hp and full spool by 4000rpm. But if theres different options i can go with to get quicker spool, i want to know what i gotta do..lol.
 
#34 ·
I believe it is the turbine housing size .64 is smaller housing size it will spool a bit faster than .82 but will run out of breath top end because it doesn't flow enough air at top. On the other hand .82 is a bigger housing size it won't spool as fast as the .64. It has a decent spool and it would have stronger top end because of the bigger turbine housing. Correct me if I am wrong, still learning here too.
 
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