Question about timing maps

[Golden]

That is true, Chet, but remember that this is a car that produced barely 250 wtq stock and can handle 400 wtq. Do you want the factory to handle double the stock power? Maybe triple?

I think 400 is a decent point to set the limit (factory limit). Cause American car makers will design the same engine to handle 251 wtq. :-)

[Joeyrukkus]

Originally Posted by Golden

That is true, Chet, but remember that this is a car that produced barely 250 wtq stock and can handle 400 wtq. Do you want the factory to handle double the stock power? Maybe triple?

I think 400 is a decent point to set the limit (factory limit). Cause American car makers will design the same engine to handle 251 wtq. :-)

This was exactly what I was going to say. For a production vehicle the company is obviously going to be more concerned with offering options that 95% of consumers are concerned. Not the 5% "because race car" crowd. To be fair we do get pretty close to doubling the brake HP before we see issues and that is a hell of a lot better than some "performance" platforms out there.

#IblewupaMazdaspeed3withanintake

[UT_EvoX]

I would like to hear a first-hand account of what Mitsubishi put the 4B11 through on the engine dyno. I bet the pre-production unit they had was a beast. That said, there's nothing keeping an auto manufacturer from changing - for example - a connecting rod design or supplier before the first production engine rolls off the assembly line

[Murlo26]

Huh...so whats going on in here

edit: also, for the record, my Etune from Jon was 10,000x better than any dyno tune I have had. My car has seen the dyno for over 300 runs in its 36k mile lifetime, lots and lots of dyno time.

Jon spent essentially all last summer dialing my car in working out all the bugs etc and its finally "solid". Etuning can work fine, even better, it just takes time, a lot of time. He said on the dyno he would've knocked my car out in a day or less and then check it up on the street (assuming no mechanical issues, which I had to fix quite a few).

But I don't see how etuning is bad, its worked wonders for me, I only put my car on the dyno for fun now.

[UT_EvoX]

Originally Posted by Murlo26

Huh...so whats going on in here

edit: also, for the record, my Etune from Jon was 10,000x better than any dyno tune I have had. My car has seen the dyno for over 300 runs in its 36k mile lifetime, lots and lots of dyno time.

Jon spent essentially all last summer dialing my car in working out all the bugs etc and its finally "solid". Etuning can work fine, even better, it just takes time, a lot of time. He said on the dyno he would've knocked my car out in a day or less and then check it up on the street (assuming no mechanical issues, which I had to fix quite a few).

But I don't see how etuning is bad, its worked wonders for me, I only put my car on the dyno for fun now.

Jon is a rare counter-example to what I've seen wrong with other e-tuning operations, not necessarily anybody in this thread. This is how I would like my shop to conduct e-tuning if we decide to offer it as a service. I'm glad you mentioned him.

[HappyMint]

Good lord Capn' what happened in this thread!

[BlueX702]

Damn! I'll go back and read the last two pages, but for real lets keep this civil people. I just want people's opinions on the subject, but not opinions about other people's opinions.

Thank you

[chetrickerman]

Everything is kosher, just a friendly debate

[BlueX702]

Sweet!

Additional info:

With the stock turbos I've been working with, I won't push more than 24psi on our lovely 91 octane.

With that, thank you guys for the suggestions on timing!

I just brought up the original topic because I took my old car to a tuner that owns a mustang dyno about 4 years ago.

It took him 3 pulls to "tune" my car. How is it he was able to get the timing, afr's, and boost dialed in so quickly?

[richardh]

Originally Posted by BlueX702

It took him 3 pulls to "tune" my car. How is it he was able to get the timing, afr's, and boost dialed in so quickly?

Because that was a baseline map, checked and revised on the dyno to be "safe and okay" on your car.

Three pulls means no exhaustive effort to find the optimum combination of InVVT, ExVVT, boost, fuelling and timing that your particular car likes best... at every part of the load/rpm range.

Tuner will be of the opinion that their baseline map already reflects the optimum combination of all of the above, and only needs to be dialled in for your car. For example, they will ensure boost levels are as per targets, AFRs are where they want 'em, and then tweak timing so it doesn't knock.


While I'd love to see everybody's car spend 2 full days on the dyno getting an OCD perfecto tune, reality will come crashing in.... prohibitive cost, shop time constraints, market pressures, etc.


I would recommend to anyone with a tuned vehicle... fit a wideband, log 24/7, get KnockCEL feature, review the logs, learn.

Rich