New brake cooling kit - Page 7 - EvoXForums.com - Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X Forums
EvoXForums.com - Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X Forums
Go Back   EvoXForums.com - Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X Forums > Racing > Track
Home Register Forum Store Members List Calendar Auto Loans vBGarage Photo Gallery Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Auto EscrowInsurance

Track Discussion for track driving techniques, events and results.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-02-2014, 11:55 AM   #61
Johnr352
Just Spooling Up
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
iTrader: (0)
Posts: 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbahamut View Post
Theres a big difference between one warmup, 3 hot, and one cooldown lap, versus 30-60 straight minutes going balls out on track.
3 hot and a cool down, Agreed, not too much wear. That's not the TT structure for NASA though. NASA NE is fastest lap in a heat, usually 20 min, 3-4 heats in a day, each day an event. Typical setup and commensurate with W2W wear and tear on the cars. Like Thunder or Lightning groups, all classes run each heat, so a full complement of cars on track. though typically with fewer interactions, open passing but we are fighting for clean track, not for the corner.
__________________
Road Race/ Time Attack
PSI Proformance Evo X
Goodyear, Moroso, Odyssey
Girodisc, Full-Race, Seibon
2011, 2012 TT2 NASA NE Champion.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
for details
Johnr352 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-02-2014, 01:39 PM   #62
Hispanic Panic
X-phile
 
Hispanic Panic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
iTrader: (100)
Posts: 1,003
Quote:
Originally Posted by chetrickerman View Post
That analogy applies to a Honda civic, not a $30,000+ Evo

How is gates still on the OEM calipers when he does time attack at 700+ whp?
I might be out of the loop, but i was pretty sure gates couldn't break 600 wheel. His evo also weighes 27xx lbs. He's also on NT01's in 285. So far we've got

1) the lightest evo X in the world (probably).
2) an "intermediate" level of traction, or, no slicks.

I'm speculating here, but he shouldn't ever need anything more than stock, especially when he only needs 1-2 hotlaps in time attack. But i will admit the fact that john is having continued success on stock brakes using 295 A6's is impressive. 3050 lbs is also in the realm of impressive.

Issues with stock brembo's aside, I'd love to see how John was able to squeeze in his brake cooling into the rotor. Pics!!!
Hispanic Panic is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-02-2014, 02:15 PM   #63
Highgain10
Just Spooling Up
 
Highgain10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
iTrader: (100)
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnr352 View Post
To your last point, and the overall thread topic, I think you've made a point. We have run, successfully, stock calipers on the TT2 race car for several seasons. Working closely with Martin at Girodisc and Hawk DTC 70 or CL R8, data acquisition indicates impressive fade free stopping supported by two NASA regional championships. A couple of important points that might be different than a typical street/track car:
- the TT2 race car weighs 3050lbs, sans ballast.
- we change the seals often, it's easy, they are cheap
- we change brake fluid after every full race weekend (ok, maybe two)
- we leverage Martin's titanium shims
- we leverage A full floating rotor from Girodisc, front and rear
- naca ducts to 3" ducting to spindle mounted cooling helps the fronts a ton
- the car runs no wheel well liners, so fitment is straightforward
Do the brakes get hot? Yes, Do they fade? Never. Do they stop? Yes, but I suggest that is more a combination of the mu of the pad/ rotor combination, than the caliper or piston size. But you need to spend the time to set them up correctly, and care for them. I've raced big brake kits, some are excellent. (See Jeff at Essex). Many will not materially improve braking performance and will simply overwhelm the tires or (if you have it) the abs. We run a 295 A6 compound on most tracks, which is plenty of meat for a high mu pad.

I suggest simply matching pad to tire to track, and get your cooling in order. Consider converting those BBK dollars to weight savings.
Yeah you've got some BIG differences that allow you to run stock calipers. Most notably and in order of importance:
-Weight: 500 lbs is a huge difference when talking about heat loads on the brake system and I believe weight is a bigger offset than power meaning 500 lbs takes away more heat than introduced by big power.
-Cooling: This is really a tie with weight in your case but getting 3 inches of cooling to the brakes is massive. Most of us aren't willing to pull wheel well liners and cut and thin things out (i.e. we don't have dedicated race cars or don't want their track cars to go that far) to make something like that work and as such are very limited in cooling.
-Tires: 295 A6's is like velcroing the car to the ground. Tires that sticky allow for much shorter, more intense brake zones that counter intuitively adds less heat to the system helping keep the overall temps down a bit.

I guess I could revise my opinion by stating that for the average track rat the Brembos have to work too hard without cooling on your average, heavy Evo X. However, under certain conditions they can be made to work but most people aren't willing to do the things needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnr352 View Post
3 hot and a cool down, Agreed, not too much wear. That's not the TT structure for NASA though. NASA NE is fastest lap in a heat, usually 20 min, 3-4 heats in a day, each day an event. Typical setup and commensurate with W2W wear and tear on the cars. Like Thunder or Lightning groups, all classes run each heat, so a full complement of cars on track. though typically with fewer interactions, open passing but we are fighting for clean track, not for the corner.
Here in NASA Midwest we typically run 5 sessions a day, Saturday and Sunday, 15-20 minutes each with an occasional 30 min session depending in the track schedule for the day. Like Johnr said we're not fighting for the corner but we are trying everything to pull that last tenth or even hundredth of a second (I lost second place by 3 hundredths of a second once!) out of our ass somehow. Running like that tears your junk up pretty efficiently, sometimes even more so than W2W. Often times I feel like there's more tension and stress in TT than there is in the race series hehe. Those guys always seem to be so damn relaxed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hispanic Panic View Post
I might be out of the loop, but i was pretty sure gates couldn't break 600 wheel. His evo also weighes 27xx lbs. He's also on NT01's in 285. So far we've got

1) the lightest evo X in the world (probably).
2) an "intermediate" level of traction, or, no slicks.

I'm speculating here, but he shouldn't ever need anything more than stock, especially when he only needs 1-2 hotlaps in time attack. But i will admit the fact that john is having continued success on stock brakes using 295 A6's is impressive. 3050 lbs is also in the realm of impressive.

Issues with stock brembo's aside, I'd love to see how John was able to squeeze in his brake cooling into the rotor. Pics!!!
I forgot Gates car was that light so you're right, he shouldn't anything more, especially if he's got cooling. That car is 1000 lbs lighter than a full interior w/driver Evo X and I totally agree, let's see some pics of that 3" setup John!!!
__________________
Current:
NASA Midwest CMC (Camaro Mustang Challenge) #221
-'84 Camaro (wheel to wheel)
Previous:
NASA Midwest Time Trials TTB #221
-Evo retired from racing and back to street duty with
a baby seat in the back (Yes, it's a Recaro)
Highgain10 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-02-2014, 04:15 PM   #64
Hispanic Panic
X-phile
 
Hispanic Panic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
iTrader: (100)
Posts: 1,003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highgain10 View Post
Yeah you've got some BIG differences that allow you to run stock calipers. Most notably and in order of importance:
-Weight: 500 lbs is a huge difference when talking about heat loads on the brake system and I believe weight is a bigger offset than power meaning 500 lbs takes away more heat than introduced by big power.
-Cooling: This is really a tie with weight in your case but getting 3 inches of cooling to the brakes is massive. Most of us aren't willing to pull wheel well liners and cut and thin things out (i.e. we don't have dedicated race cars or don't want their track cars to go that far) to make something like that work and as such are very limited in cooling.
-Tires: 295 A6's is like velcroing the car to the ground. Tires that sticky allow for much shorter, more intense brake zones that counter intuitively adds less heat to the system helping keep the overall temps down a bit.

I guess I could revise my opinion by stating that for the average track rat the Brembos have to work too hard without cooling on your average, heavy Evo X. However, under certain conditions they can be made to work but most people aren't willing to do the things needed.



Here in NASA Midwest we typically run 5 sessions a day, Saturday and Sunday, 15-20 minutes each with an occasional 30 min session depending in the track schedule for the day. Like Johnr said we're not fighting for the corner but we are trying everything to pull that last tenth or even hundredth of a second (I lost second place by 3 hundredths of a second once!) out of our ass somehow. Running like that tears your junk up pretty efficiently, sometimes even more so than W2W. Often times I feel like there's more tension and stress in TT than there is in the race series hehe. Those guys always seem to be so damn relaxed.




I forgot Gates car was that light so you're right, he shouldn't anything more, especially if he's got cooling. That car is 1000 lbs lighter than a full interior w/driver Evo X and I totally agree, let's see some pics of that 3" setup John!!!
I'm gearing up for a trackday at Circuit of the America's this weekend and now i'm a little worried about my brake situation. I've got ST43's on all 4 corners on stock rotors with no cooling, 3654lbs /w driver & full tank of gas on 295 AD08-R's. This is a FAST track with 1 retarded long straight, and 2 medium straights. With 300 wheel, i should be 140+ on the long straight leading to a tight hairpin, and an easy 100+ mph on the other 2 straights that lead to 2nd gear 90 degree turns.

I have the binary engineering ducts, 2.5 inch ducting, 2.5 inch naca ducts, and 2" to 2.5" silicone couplers sitting on my shelf but the couplers end up rubbing the driveshaft. Not sure what to do.
Hispanic Panic is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-02-2014, 05:07 PM   #65
Highgain10
Just Spooling Up
 
Highgain10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
iTrader: (100)
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 605
Take into account that long straights create speed but also give time for the brakes to cool. I'm only slightly familiar with COTA but I think only one of those brakes zones is really heavy after the straight but it's brake zone is uphill which helps you a bit. Big tracks can sometimes lend themselves to giving time for the brakes to cool on their own unless most of the brake zones are heavy, a la Road America.
__________________
Current:
NASA Midwest CMC (Camaro Mustang Challenge) #221
-'84 Camaro (wheel to wheel)
Previous:
NASA Midwest Time Trials TTB #221
-Evo retired from racing and back to street duty with
a baby seat in the back (Yes, it's a Recaro)
Highgain10 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-02-2014, 05:27 PM   #66
KickAss
[X Performance Mod]
[Racing Mod]
[Local Team Member]
 
KickAss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
iTrader: (100)
Location: Salem Village, Apex, NC
Posts: 11,761
You should be fine....you are over thinking this for your use and experience level.
__________________
mlomker was KickAss

Quote:
HA!! Yeah Orthojoe, quit being a vag in your safe, relatively practical cars...come back to us, come dance with the devil again....
KickAss is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the EvoXForums.com - Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Security Question
While balancing on a piece of wood, two inches by four inches known as a 2x4, john and his friend sally both spotted a dalmatian inside a truck with sirens, headed to put out a fire. State what the 2x4 is made of.
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Reassessing AMS Brake Cooling Kit qwertymess Track 85 10-17-2015 12:07 AM
Brake cooling Rangerman87 '09+ Ralliart General 1 12-23-2013 12:43 AM
AMS Turbo Kit Wastegate Water Cooling Kit LVSBB6 Evo X Performance 17 09-27-2012 07:25 PM
AMS Brake Cooling Kit with AMS full length Cold Air Intake RJsGSR Evo X Wheels, Suspension & Brakes 3 10-11-2011 01:03 PM
*Product Release**AMS Evolution X Brake Cooling Kit AMS Merchant Marketplace 11 08-25-2009 09:45 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:07 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.1 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.