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Need some advice on what turbo to get

18K views 107 replies 19 participants last post by  UnFocus 
#1 ·
Hey guys I need some advice and would love to hear people's experience with these turbos I'm thinking about.

My motor is getting built right now (ran it low on oil like an idiot:imstupid:) and so I decided I might as well get a bigger turbo now while it's being worked on. My tuner asked me what I wanted out of the car and since I was a kid I've wanted a stupid fast evo. So we said 500whp or so. He suggested an FP Black which I was all for! It's been over 2 months now and I have all the parts except the turbo and my tuner is saying FP is taking way to long to build this turbo and I should be thinking about maybe getting a different turbo now.

Now I have so many options I don't know what to do. Either wait for the Black (tuner also knows someone who builds turbos and can build a turbo similar to the Black within 3 weeks) or get another stock frame turbo like a GTX, or Dominator. Or go with a T3 set up either a 6266 or 6466. Or the EFR kits like the 8374. Or maybe an AMS 750xp with a 5858.

I've never had a big turbo car so I'm not sure which turbo I'd like best. I've only been on a stock turbo so I'm not used to lag. I've read a ton about all these turbos and still can't decide! I would really love advice from people who have experience with any of them.

I have a truck that I usually drive around so this won't be my daily but I also don't go around looking to race people. I have a heavy foot tho and like to do pulls here and there and play the car like an instrument sometimes and hit the back roads. I'm 24 now so I don't really drive crazy anymore, I just wanna get pushed back in my seat a few times each car ride and maybe an occasional roll race with some lol

Also what do you guys think about getting a used turbo kit? My build is already about $8,000+ without the turbo, so I'm trying to save money any way I can.
 
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#5 ·
You need cams, dont make the mistake of building the motor and upgrading the turbo without cams--get S2s, Kelford B or AMS TMP. And you'll need GSC springs.

I didnt know FP is still making the Black, I would get the ATP Gen 2 GTX 3576. IMO this is the perfect turbo for the Evo X, I love mine. Easy to install, spools fast and tons of power. I'm neck and neck with C7 ZO6s and Gen 5 Vipers on the straights. If not the 3576, I'd get the FR EFR 8374, but that's a different ballgame with a lot more heat and welded parts that can crack.
 
#6 ·
My tuner said I don't "need" cams to get to my goals. It would benefit me but he said the stock cams are good enough. FP Black is discontinued but he has connections to get it made, but it's taking too long so I told him to cancel that.

I have not heard anything good about the GTX turbos so I already crossed that off the list.

I'm going EFR...Hopefully by the end of the day I'll make my final decision between the EFR7670 or EFR8374. I'm just trying to figure out which one will suit me best, they're both amazing turbos!
 
#8 ·
Just wanted to give an update that I made my decision last week. I went with an EFR 8374 IWG .92 A/R kit from Full Race! It was $5,700 but I think it'll be worth it. I was told it should get here within 5-6 weeks :/ my tuner is going to start my motor build next week
I'll do my best to inform the community what my thoughts are with this turbo, as well as a dyno sheet so maybe one day it'll help someone with the same questions I had. Thank you everyone who replied.
 
#9 ·
It's redonkulous not to upgrade your cams while your building a motor. You are already paying for all the labor, just pony up another $600 for a set of cams.

if you don't want cam lope, get a set of Kelford 214-B's. You can't even tell the car has cams and they make good power.
 
#10 ·
If it was that much than sure but he told me that if I do cams I need springs, if I get those I should get buckets, he kept going on till it was the entire head lol. This turbo will make more than the power I'm after so I don't need cams to get to that power level at least. I'm at 12k in parts only... I have no idea what labor will be so I'm already way over my budget
 
#14 · (Edited)
Cams ~$650
Springs/Retainers ~$350
OEM Buckets ~$300


It adds up quick, and that's just in parts.


I'm not sure the gains are worth the extra cost to do the rest of the head right now. Whats left? Porting and larger valves? Not really worth it for you just yet. Cams and springs make notable changes to the power band and how the engine behaves compared to OEM.
 
#26 ·
Guys my tuner said to get 214-b cams & springs, I've read between them and the GSC2 there isn't too much of a difference cause they're both good cams. I'm trying to find a good deal on cams so I can save a little money (it adds up) so if I was to find a deal on the GSC but not on the 214 would it make a difference? Or do you think the 214-b is better and that's why he said to go with them? If they're equally just as good I'm just gonna buy which ever one I can find a deal on. If I can't find any in new condition would you think It'd be ok to buy ones in good condition or is this something I need to buy new? Sorry for the stupid questions
 
#27 ·
The Kelfords are less aggressive. The GSC S2's are more aggressive and technically will make more power up top with a turbo that can do it.

Kelfords there is basically no idle lope. GSC S2's lope.

I personally use the Kelfords and have no problem making 640whp to 9,000rpm.
 
#28 ·
Here are the #'s. Kelford 214-B's intake is closer to sc2's and exhaust is closer to s1's.



Kelford 214-B
270/262 Duration
11.00mm/10.00mm Lift

GSC S1
264/264 Duration
10.20mm/10.00mm Lift

GSC S2
274/274 Duration
11.20mm/11.00mm Lift



I run the S2's and don't mind the lope. No experience with the Kelford but razorlab knows his stuff. Its more of a case of either "either one is way better than OEM".
 
#29 ·
Glad dude is finally considering cams after all. I would've went with a cheaper turbo setup especially if the goal is just 500whp.
 
#30 ·
Yes well most of my build changed. Originally I was trying to be on the tightest budget so he was working with that to get me 500whp so we were gonna do an FP Black but after how many other parts I really needed I said I might as well go T3. Then after extensive research found EFR to be the best and has much quicker spool traits and I was worried about spool since I'm coming from a stock turbo. Then I was asking him about getting cams but he kinda talked me out of it because he still thought I was on a budget but now I understand and will be getting cams and springs, then no more lol

The reason I went with the 8374 is because I didn't want to push the turbo to it's max to get the power. What I was really looking for was in-between the 7670 & 8374. Also I am capable of running e85 but I'm starting to not want to have to use it because I feel it will be a PITA so I think I can hit 600 even on pump with this turbo. Besides it's definitely better than a 6266 which is what my tuner recommended me to get.

Btw all these HP numbers my tuner and I discussed are for HIS dyno which is a mustang dyno. So he knows what power different turbos will make on it (ex. 5858 - 93 - 470) which is why he suggested the 6266. So I'd like to break 500 on his dyno and 600 with e85 if necessary
 
#32 · (Edited)
I am interested to see how you do on this set up once you get on the dyno. There are so many options and the pulling the trigger on something is a tough choice as if you are not happy with your initial choice (t3, T4, T4 twin scroll, vband, stock frame) you are stuck with future turbo options based on what you initially picked.

I am going through the same process where I started out looking to buy stock frame GTX3576R as people seem to make good HP on the 2L with good spool.

But by the time you buy the downpipe/ o2, turbo, exhaust manifold & intake (my stock one is starting to crack) you are pretty close to the cost of a kit with headers.

My goal for now would be 500HP mustang dyno on 93 octane (E85 isn't easy to get where I am). This goal may be a little optimistic I know this, I am on the stock block and top end so torque will have to be kept in check. I want to do things in progression, enjoy it, get used to it for a summer and add to it over the winter. Id like to run the new turbo set up this coming summer and then add cams the following winter.

Most of the driving will be on the street with the occasional 1/4mile, (I would like to see 11.5 at a decent MPH (GSR) and maybe a road course track day so I don't want some super laggy turbo only making power after 5k. I will be stock block and head for now so I won't be able to rev it out high enough.

From what I have read the precision turbo's may have oil issues (some don't), same as the GTX, oil restrictors seem to help this for the GTX.

The Precision 5858 and higher seem to be laggier.

The GTX3576r seems to be the best in regards to spool and making HP making it the perfect choice except for the fact that if you want to go bigger in the future you will have to sell all the stock frame stuff and buy a kit at that time.

I would love to be able to ride or drive each of these set up's and feel what the lag/ hp/ power band is like and then decide what set up I like but that's not an option. Maybe the lag on the 5858 or even 6262 isn't bad at all...

Buying a kit now would be the smarter thing to do.

From what I have researched this leaves the EFR 7076 and 8374 for the spool and HP characteristics I want (and OP seems to want as well). The kits are the most expensive unfortunately with the T4TS

The 7076 seems to be like the GTX3576 but maybe even makes less hp up top?

The 3874 seems to make good power but how laggy will it be?

I guess the OP will find out soon, but can anyone that has driven either of these turbo's elaborate please?

Thank you,
 
#33 · (Edited)
It's so tough right! The thing I've worried about most is after all the money I just spent will I be happy with my choice or will I regret it and wish I got a different turbo. I definitely believe I got the best kit for the X and I spent a little more money with the EFR but it honestly in the grand scheme of things is nothing! Totally worth it in my opinion! One thing you have to think about with these turbos is how they feel on the street. A lot of people post comparisons and sometimes it doesn't look too much different on the graph but when they compare how it feels on the street, that's when they praise the EFR's for how well they spool and feel which you can't see on the dyno.

So I would suggest to you to just spend the extra on that now if you want the best for your X. The hardest decision for me was between the 7670 or 8374 tho. I really was looking for a turbo right in the middle! I've heard so many good things about both of them but I was worried that I might get tired of the power 7670 is good for (highest whp on a dynojet: 540 on 93 & 600+ on e85) and that as pushing that turbo to the max! So on a mustang dyno that would convert to 437whp on 93 if we used a 15% loss (not sure if accurate) so it was just a little too small for me.

The downside of the 8374 is the loss of spool and so I was worried about how bad it would be and that's why I considered the 7670 because everyone LOVED it for the street. But what I like about the 8374 is that I don't need to max it out to make the power I want. Also it would just be easier to just stay on 93 if I can still make the power I want and I believe this turbo is capable. Also the spool is MUCH better than a 6266 and if you read posts from "Black E" he tells you his set up was a 5858 and he went to a 8374 and he said it felt more responsive as if he had a stroker! That was a huge selling point! My tuner said a 5858 on pump makes 470whp on his MD, so the 8374 I'm hoping to make 100whp more and still have better spool! That's amazing!

Go look up his videos on youtube "justa2l" and watch him smoke everything with his EFR 8374 and then 9174. He left a Mclaren mp4-12c in the dust! My dream car is a Mclaren 720s and I really think his car would beat it even when he had his 8374 turbo on his car.

I'm pretty confident in the choices I've made in this build. I will definitely post dyno results and give my honest opinion, pros and cons of the setup and hopefully that'll help anyone with this stressful decision to make
 
#37 ·
I wanted similar power goals for my daily, and was torn between the 7670 and 8374 too. I went on the recommendation of CBRD to get the larger 8374.


Stock block and heads made 460whp at 23psi with 93 pump on a MD with the 8374, and it was an absolute blast to drive everywhere. Took a few days to adjust to keeping the rpms a little more to the right but once I did it was just ridiculous amounts of fun. I would personally consider the turbo to be pretty responsive, and wouldn't think twice about tossing another one into the next car.
 
#39 ·
To everyone, thank you for all the replies, input and great info!

I'm curious to know what cars anybody has raced with their turbo set up and how close it was. I'm assuming on my soon to be 500+whp 8374 setup I will be able to beat almost any new stock car. If I could beat a Hellcat or C7 Z06 that would be reeeeeally cool. I'm curious to see what cars have compared to everyones setup whether it be out in Mexico or at the track.

(my ultimate goal would be have an evo that could beat a Mclaren 570s or even better a 720s in a roll race) From races I've seen it looks like it would take probably a 700whp X just to beat a 570s so that will be a goal one day.

I'm thinking for the next mod (at some point down the line) I'd like to change the final drive. I think that's a big downside for the GSR that you have to stop at the top of 4th which is around 120mph. Has anybody done this or have any recommendations or estimate on how much something like that would cost?
 
#45 ·
Here's an update for everyone. I've had a lot of problems along the way but the car is almost finished. The latest problem I have is the engine and trans were installed onto the car and then the clutch kept popping out. They said it was a bad wave clip, (Competition) so now they have drop the motor again and overnight an ACT monolock. They've expressed their dislike for this Full Race turbo kit. They said they didn't like the design because of the fitment, there's barely any room. They had to grind down (clutch otter shell?) just to make one of the lines fit. They said whenever I need a new clutch they'd have to drop the whole motor to do the job because of the poor fitment of this kit. I'll attached a pic to try to explain a bit better.



Also the sleeving job turned out to be just as expensive as I originally thought. My tuner said it would be $600 for the sleeves and around $500 for the machining. He used a new shop for my car though and I've read some reviews about him and apparently he does excellent work but he's expensive. The sleeving job came out to be $1,200! so almost a 2K job. Even my tuner and his mechanics were shocked when they heard how much. Maybe there's a particular reason, idk. At least it's over with.






If you noticed they also they decided against going with the Turbosmart wastegate actuator and sticking with the BW setup that comes with it. Apparently they talked to Full Race and was told that the IWG setup has 9mm of preload so they think they will be able to run the amount of boost they we want, around 35PSI, aiming for 700whp. After doing research on Black E's posts I am a little worried but I trust in my tuners knowledge vs my own, so lets hope everything works! They want to finish the car this week but I'll be waiting patiently.
They think I should of went with an ETS Precision turbo kit 6266 and that it would be a better setup, they work on those like everyday. I'm really hoping that all of this is worth it and all the hype BW EFR turbos have proves true and proves them wrong! This is a street car after all, not a dyno queen or drag car... at least as of now.


PS - I can't upload the pictures, just got to https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/evo-x-engine-turbo-drivetrain/750774-need-some-advice-what-turbo-get-3.html#post11860562 to see them
 
#46 · (Edited)
I'm about to order my 8374 kit and have done a lot of research.

What shop is doing the install? Do you have the bottom mount or top Mount kit? I haven't read about any clearance issues with the bottom mount kits. I don't see any pics, can you post one?

The motor has to be dropped slightly to do a clutch on the evo with even the stock turbo on it.

As far as heat goes I'm looking into options as well as they do create a lot of heat when you are on it. Again it's more of a problem if you are racing the car.

Everyone says to get the turbo smart wastegste ( single port is fine) as it holds boost better than the bw wastegate. It's only like $100.00 and easier to install now when the turbo is still not in the car than later. I think it requires 2mm of preload.

I also read a lot about bolts backing out due to vibration with the bw kits. Racing set ups for sure but also some street. People have safety wired the bolts that hold the compressor housing on the turbo ( once it's clocked of course). The bolts that hold the turbo to the manifold are the ones that seem to back out the most. The kit may come with nord-lock washers which may be ok as long as you aren't tracking the car.
 
#47 ·
I'm pretty sure Full Race is a Top Mount only? The shop is DDA (Daily Driven Autosports) in Newburgh, NY the owner's name is Remy and he's a pretty chill guy.

What kit do you think you're going to get and IWG or EWG?

To see pics, go to the link, It's on the EvoM forum
 
#57 ·
To all following, I finally got my car back. It was supposed to be broken in on the dyno and I was waiting for a couple weeks for it to get a break-in tune but the place that sleeved my motor told them it needs a soft break in of 1,000 miles. I was a little disappointed being told I was going home with a 450whp car that I would be allowed to do some pulls with and then the next day I can't go into boost for 1k miles. Regardless I just want my car to be perfect so I'm happy with whatever the best way is. So my rev limiter is set at 4600 rpm. It's hard to start with the cams and until it warms up I have to rev it or it dies. That will be taken care of when it gets it's real tune. Also he told me to get rid of the Cobb AP and he's going via opensource and he said something about speed density. If anyone is interested in my bill I can post it. I will probably start a new thread when I get it tuned and review the turbo kit, supplier and power numbers.
 
#65 · (Edited)
I just hit 1k miles over the weekend so break in is done. Hopefully I can get a tune soon!

One thing I did want to mention about Driven Fab

So I ordered the driven fab flexfuel kit, I ordered it on Tuesday, got 2-day shipping and I kept looking for tracking information saying it shipped because I thought my tuner was gonna squeeze me in over the weekend since he's leaving for vaca for a week. Thursday I still didn't see anything about it being shipped so now I'm getting worried. I called Driven Fab multiple times and left a message the last time I called them and told them my situation and all. I never got a call back but later that night I got tracking info and it was over night delivered by 12pm shipped and I received it Friday morning. I am very happy with and and really felt cared about as a customer. Not all companies will do that, it'll just be too bad for the customer. Thank you Driven Fab!

Here's some pics of the car, Ft my beautiful little helper
 

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#66 ·
Glad to hear your up and running well. Do you have any tune on it at all to get it to run with everything you added?

Good to hear about Driven Fab. I ordered my 8374 kit from them as they were the only ones that offered internal wg with 3.5" downpipe. We are coming up on 6 weeks so hopefully it will be here soon.
 
#67 ·
No unfortunately nothing is installed and he won't be able to get to me before he leaves...probably within the next 3 weeks. Don't be surprised when it takes double the time to get your parts, then take forever to get your tuner to install and tune and stuff. Seems like in the car world being weeks, months late is just normal and to be expected...I'm in the wrong business lol.

I've been running on just a crappy break in tune, the MAF is not dialed in and it revs erratically when it's cold, it makes me look like a D-bag revving his car when at idle. It's revved to like 5500rpm one time Idk how when my rev limter is lower than that but I was so embarrassed.

We're going on 9 months since I dropped off the car, and it's still not 100% done and still have not been able to hit boost, only little tastes. Be prepared to wait 6 months for your build buddy :/
 
#68 ·
Are you sure it's safe to drive with your current tune? You can be lean even not in boost which wouldn't be good. Do you have a wideband?

Unfortunately it seems in the EVO world some shops and vendors make promises they can't keep regarding build times. I am not sure if it is an EVO specific thing or not.

I did have great communication and prompt service/ delivery from WTF tuned and just got my parts I ordered from them on the weekend ( injectors, fuel pump, clutch etc).

I do my own install so I only have myself to blame if it takes longer than expected. Tuning I will leave to the professionals though.
 
#70 ·
I can’t wait to see the results, I just got 8374 kits from CBRD a couple weeks ago and it beautiful, just seat in my garage collecting dust right now lol, not even planning on install it anytime soon , I may sell it Lol I do love your build though, keep us updated
 
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