[jtmartin]

These are three consecutive runs using Perrin Stage 2 OTS maps. I have the exact mods Perrin sells for stage 2. Please take a look and tell me if I'm running safely. One of the logs has a significant amount of knock showing, or at least high numbers in the knock column.

Any input is appreciated as always. Thanks Gents.

JT

 

[weebles]

If you care about your car, you'll get a proper tune.

Plenty of things could be causing this (fuel, temp, elevation) but the main issue is the fact that off the shelf maps are designed generically and not specifically tailored to your car. Every car will react differently to a generic tune being there are so many variables.

PM Clipse3gt on this forum and ask about an e-tune.

 

[weebles]

To answer the original question posed, that knock is not good. I'd lay off full throttle usage until resolved.

 

[gamaliel612]

you buy a 30k dollar why not spend the money having it properly tuned?

 

[jtmartin]

you buy a 30k dollar why not spend the money having it properly tuned?

Well.. Because I live in Cali currently altho I don't plan to stay. We have cruddy 91 octane gas. It's not just the lower octane, but the blend itself is questionable from what I've read. Plus I want to do more modding before investing in a tune. Add to that if I DO stay long enough to need smog tested I'm going to be having the car basically put to stock. So until I make it out of commy-fornia, an OTS map seems ideal.

So if I can spend a little time getting this knock straightened out I'd be better off. I've currently reverted back to stock ECU settings until I can determine of this map is safe.

Thanks all,
JT

 

[weebles]

Well.. Because I live in Cali currently altho I don't plan to stay. We have cruddy 91 octane gas. It's not just the lower octane, but the blend itself is questionable from what I've read. Plus I want to do more modding before investing in a tune. Add to that if I DO stay long enough to need smog tested I'm going to be having the car basically put to stock. So until I make it out of commy-fornia, an OTS map seems ideal.

So if I can spend a little time getting this knock straightened out I'd be better off. I've currently reverted back to stock ECU settings until I can determine of this map is safe.

Thanks all,
JT

Having shitty gas is all the more reason to have a tailor made tune. An e-tune will cost you around 200$.... A mod worth every penny.

 

[HappyMint]

I'd straighten it out myself if i had ATR but I can't. Bottom line is, it's not that bad of knock honestly. THe knock around 6250-7k is likely false knock and the other knock could be tuned out quite easily. Perrin is around, they have fixed other people's maps before, I'm sure they could take the 2 minutes it would take to fix this since you bought it from them.

 

[weebles]

I'd straighten it out myself if i had ATR but I can't. Bottom line is, it's not that bad of knock honestly. THe knock around 6250-7k is likely false knock and the other knock could be tuned out quite easily. Perrin is around, they have fixed other people's maps before, I'm sure they could take the 2 minutes it would take to fix this since you bought it from them.

How can you assume a largely consistent knock of 3-5 counts in both lower and upper RPM range is false? I don't understand this at all, and if it were my car I'd certainly be concerned.

 

[gamaliel612]

ok man..It's your gameplan..good luck

 

[xVforVelocityx]

I'd straighten it out myself if i had ATR but I can't. Bottom line is, it's not that bad of knock honestly. THe knock around 6250-7k is likely false knock and the other knock could be tuned out quite easily. Perrin is around, they have fixed other people's maps before, I'm sure they could take the 2 minutes it would take to fix this since you bought it from them.

How can you assume a largely consistent knock of 3-5 counts in both lower and upper RPM range is false? I don't understand this at all, and if it were my car I'd certainly be concerned.

Yeah the problem is that it is consistent knock, you can't assume thats its all engine noise when he has knock readings of over 0.35 on all his logs in the upper RPM range, I'd also suggest getting an e-tune or a proper tune, OTS maps are generally useless, especially for Cali 91, get a turbo-back with a HFC, intake, and 3-port and you'll net some nice power with a proper tune.

 

[HappyMint]

How can you assume a largely consistent knock of 3-5 counts in both lower and upper RPM range is false? I don't understand this at all, and if it were my car I'd certainly be concerned.

I didn't say it was all false knock. I SPECIFICALLY said the knock in the upper RPM band is likely false knock. And it is very likely false, thats just how our cars are often. I've pulled 3 degrees of timing up top and STILL had knock from 6250-7k consistently in logs, the same amount as before. It's common on the X and if you knew better you'd agree with me. If you pull 3 degrees of timing in an area where you have 1-4 counts of knock and you still have 1-4 counts of knock you can bet your ass it's not real knock - I have seen this exact scenario played out on multiple X's in the 6250-7k rpm range. Do we know for sure it's not real knock? No we don't, thats why I recommended that he have someone check it out. More likely than not the lower rpm knock is legitimate knock and needs to be tuned out (just like I said before).

And his knock isn't that bad, like I said, I'd recommend fixing it, but it'd probably take no more than 5 minutes of anyone's time to fix it. I've seen people run logs with knock maxxed out at like 40 or whatever it is all the way down the track and the motor stayed together, no damage to be known. So yeah, thats BAD knock, not 1-4 counts in a few logs. So yeah I would venture to say 1-4 counts of knock is pretty minor and I stand by that. Is it good? Of course not, but if I do a log and see 4 counts of knock I'm not going to shit the bed. It's not like 4 counts of knock, oh shit, don't go wot EVER again until you get retuned. Do another pull, and another, and see if you get the same knock there again in the same spot. If you do, make a few minor tweaks (add fuel, pull timing, whatever), and try again.

Hell I've done a pull and gotten a random 20 counts of knock. The log before it 0 counts of knock all the way through. The one after, 0 counts of knock all the way through, the one after 0, the one after 0. WTF happened? Hell if I know, but I didn't touch a thing because although 20 counts of knock is scary, there ARE anomalies sometimes.

 

[weebles]

I didn't say it was all false knock. I SPECIFICALLY said the knock in the upper RPM band is likely false knock. And it is very likely false.

And his knock isn't that bad, like I said, it'd recommend fixing it, but it'd probably take no more than 5 minutes of anyone's time to fix it.

You do realize cobb uses a different system for counting knock right?

0.35 = 1 knock

0.7 = 2 knock

1.x = 4+++ knock

I don't comprehend how you can say the upper RPM is false knock when it's clearly high counts, consistent and not just here or there, it's a big bloody line of CONSTANT knock.

While yes, knock in the peak torque powerband is more likely and more dangerous, considering he already HAS that how can you just brush off knock at 5K+ rpm off and say "yeah it's probably false" seems ridiculous to me. 3-5 knock from 5-7k rpm would have me immediately paying attention to that problem, disregarding it would be foolish.

 

[weebles]

I didn't say it was all false knock. I SPECIFICALLY said the knock in the upper RPM band is likely false knock. And it is very likely false, thats just how our cars are often. I've pulled 3 degrees of timing up top and STILL had knock from 6250-7k consistently in logs, the same amount as before. It's common on the X and if you knew better you'd agree with me. If you pull 3 degrees of timing in an area where you have 1-4 counts of knock and you still have 1-4 counts of knock you can bet your ass it's not real knock - I have seen this exact scenario played out on multiple X's in the 6250-7k rpm range. Do we know for sure it's not real knock? No we don't, thats why I recommended that he have someone check it out. More likely than not the lower rpm knock is legitimate knock and needs to be tuned out (just like I said before).

And his knock isn't that bad, like I said, I'd recommend fixing it, but it'd probably take no more than 5 minutes of anyone's time to fix it. I've seen people run logs with knock maxxed out at like 40 or whatever is all the way down the track and the motor stayed together, no damage to be known. So yeah, thats REAL knock, not 1-4 counts in a few logs. So yeah I would venture to say 1-4 counts of knock is pretty minor and I stand by that. Is it good? Of course not, but if I do a log and see 4 counts of knock I'm not going to shit the bed. It's not like 4 counts of knock, oh shit, don't go wot EVER again until you get retuned. Do another pull, and another, and see if you get the same knock there again in the same spot. If you do, make a few minor tweaks (add fuel, pull timing, whatever), and try again.

Shit I've done a pull and gotten a random 20 counts of knock. The log before it 0 counts of knock all the way through. The one after, 0 counts of knock all the way through, the one after 0, the one after 0. WTF happened? Hell if I know, but I didn't touch a thing because although 20 counts of knock is scary, there ARE anomalies sometimes.

I know how to tune, my car doesn't have giant consistent lines of knock at 6k~ rpm regardless of how many logs I do. I also run pretty agressive timing. Good fuel = good results. He's on CALI 91 octane running a map which is NOT DESIGNED for cali 91 octane, let's put 2 and 2 together and consider being cautious in this situation.

While I'm not ruling out the chance it's false, I certainly wouldn't ASSUME it is.

 

[HappyMint]

You do realize cobb uses a different system for counting knock right?

0.35 = 1 knock

0.7 = 2 knock

1.x = 4+++ knock

I don't comprehend how you can say the upper RPM is false knock when it's clearly high counts, consistent and not just here or there, it's a big bloody line of CONSTANT knock.

While yes, knock in the peak torque powerband is more likely and more dangerous, considering he already HAS that how can you just brush off knock at 5K+ rpm off and say "yeah it's probably false" seems ridiculous to me. 3-5 knock from 5-7k rpm would have me immediately paying attention to that problem, disregarding it would be foolish.

Yes I am aware of Cobb's system. I'm aware he got 2 counts once, 4 another, and 5 another up top.

I was going to type out a long response but honestly you're a waste of my time. I've said what I wanted to say, the OP can take it how he wants.

 

[HappyMint]

I know how to tune, my car doesn't have giant consistent lines of knock at 6k~ rpm regardless of how many logs I do. I also run pretty agressive timing. Good fuel = good results. He's on CALI 91 octane running a map which is NOT DESIGNED for cali 91 octane, let's put 2 and 2 together and consider being cautious in this situation.

While I'm not ruling out the chance it's false, I certainly wouldn't ASSUME it is.

I never said to assume it was. Jesus christ man you're giving me a headache.

In fact I specifically recommended he contact Perrin since I've seen them modify their maps for people when the users were having knock issues.

 

[weebles]

Sorry, getting out of hand. This is pointless...

No hate <3

 

[jtmartin]

Thanks to all who have responded. It seems a custom tune is in order but I don't have a wideband installed so that will need to come first.

Perrin actually did view these three logs and said I was fine. I asked for clarification from them on why the logs show all the knock but i'm ok and haven't heard back. That's why I wanted to get some other opinions.

One thing to add- the ots map is designed for CA 91 octane- at least that's how it's labeled!

For now I'm going to just run the stock tune until I can get something custom.

 

[HappyMint]

Keep up with them, I'm sure they'll take care of you.

 

[xVforVelocityx]

Thanks to all who have responded. It seems a custom tune is in order but I don't have a wideband installed so that will need to come first.

Perrin actually did view these three logs and said I was fine. I asked for clarification from them on why the logs show all the knock but i'm ok and haven't heard back. That's why I wanted to get some other opinions.

One thing to add- the ots map is designed for CA 91 octane- at least that's how it's labeled!

For now I'm going to just run the stock tune until I can get something custom.

I mean its not really that bad, you can keep on running the map, its probably better and more fun than stock but just don't run this map for a prolonged period of time, get all your performance parts and a tune as soon as you can.