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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all! So I figured now would be a good time to introduce myself and start a discussion on my next project


I was wanting to modernize the mitsubishi starion /dodge conquest drivetrain and after a little bit of research I decided to try and workout the issues with converting the 4b11 platform to rwd

I have the manual transmission out of a early 2.0T hyundai genesis (it's a 2010 I believe) and a 4b11 out of a 2011 lancer

I'm waiting on a new engine stand to get started on making sure everything is ready and bolts up but from eyeballing it on the pallet things look hopeful


I'll update this as I go but if anyone has any suggestions or questions they'd like me to look into I'd love to hear from y'all

I'm definitely going to need some help with wiring diagrams and taking some measurements so hopefully y'all can help me out馃檶馃徎
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
This is a cross post from the Gencoupe forum

My stand is supposed to be here on Friday so I should be posting some pictures of everything then


Until then if anyone has the time and knowledge to answer a couple of questions from the mitsubishi side of things I'd appreciate it


I looked the the forum using a couple of searches but wasn't able to find anything definitive on the differences between the wiring harness for different cars

I have a base 4b11 as a dummy block and test engine, can I use the wiring harness from a ralliart/GSR until I build the engine for turbo or do I need to source a stock harness as well.


My other question is to the guys who have naturally aspirated builds, I know that Evo cams are a popular performance upgrade for the 4b11 engine

I have also seen forged rods and pistons although they are few and far between

A buddy of mine is heavily into the Honda scene so I was planning on sleeving the block to help make the power range I'm aiming for more reliably

I'm aware of the darton sleeves but what are the NA guys using? Are they using the 11t block and just ditching the turbo because that seems kinda wasteful


Thx for y'alls help

Casey
 

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Interesting build, make sure to post pictures.

Why not just use a stand alone ecu instead of stock? I am not sure about the wiring harnesses but I think they may be the same.

There is a full EVo shop manual on the net, just do a search, it would have all the wiring for the 4b11t.

I don't think anyone on this board is N/A. If you are going to go through the trouble of this build why would you not use the 4b11t?
 

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Even N/A, I don't think block reliability will be an issue. Even open deck, I can't imagine you having a problem holding 250WHP in the block.

Sleeves are needed on the 4B11T around 700 WHP/500 LB-FT of torque
 

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Yeah, from what I've seen on the boards you're looking at around 175-180whp with bolt-ons and some Evo cams. Though, it seems counter intuitive to me that you would want to use cams setup for a forced induction motor on an NA car but there isn't really a lot by way of NA aftermarket support beyond cold air intakes for the 4B11.

If you are willing to do an E85 setup, you could build the motor for higher compression. I would not increase displacement as it would not rev as well and would make the car less driveable.

This might be helpful
286725


In the end, if you want to make more power either look at going with a 4b11t setup. The Ralliart is actually a really nice package if you want really fast spool on a budget.

If you really want an NA build, look into getting a transmission adapter for a K-series. There's an art to making HP on an NA car and the Honda K market has it down.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Interesting build, make sure to post pictures.

Why not just use a stand alone ecu instead of stock? I am not sure about the wiring harnesses but I think they may be the same.

There is a full EVo shop manual on the net, just do a search, it would have all the wiring for the 4b11t.

I don't think anyone on this board is N/A. If you are going to go through the trouble of this build why would you not use the 4b11t?
The reason to go for a wiring harness and ecu out of a stock car is mostly cost, alot of my time and budget for this project by necessity have to go into chassis and drivetrain deu to the fwd to rwd platform differences

I've only ever used haltech on the aftermarket side of things and they start at 1k+ I can get a full harness from my local yard with an ecu and cluster for less then half that so it's a difficult sell just to get the engine running.

Do you have any suggestions on ecus that work well? From what I've seen most people are flashing onto the stock ecu unless they are going for big power

I honestly completely forgot about the shop manual and already have it saved from when I was doing research before, I'll definitely go over it again so thx for the remainder

My work just started up but I have the weekend off so I'll be posting some initial pictures then馃憣馃徎


As for why I'd not just use the 4b11T is partially down to preference and partially my own curiosity

Preference in that this project is a weird one off car that's certainly going to take a while before it's finished, I personally just dislike the idea of taking an engine that could keep something somewhat rare like an EVOX on the road and using it for this when I can get it running an a more common 4b11.

And then I get to have the fun of building an unique engine later to test out the limits of the platform and satisfy my curiosity, I know its not how everyone likes to build cars and isn't the most budget friendly option but it is cheaper then a psychiatrist so I have the excuse that I keeps me sane馃槀
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Even N/A, I don't think block reliability will be an issue. Even open deck, I can't imagine you having a problem holding 250WHP in the block.

Sleeves are needed on the 4B11T around 700 WHP/500 LB-FT of torque
For now I'm not worried about the power it can hold

The power range I'm hoping for eventually is at least 300hp, possibly up to 400hp depending how things work out, for that I'll definitely need sleeves unless I want to step up to a 11T block
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yeah, from what I've seen on the boards you're looking at around 175-180whp with bolt-ons and some Evo cams. Though, it seems counter intuitive to me that you would want to use cams setup for a forced induction motor on an NA car but there isn't really a lot by way of NA aftermarket support beyond cold air intakes for the 4B11.

If you are willing to do an E85 setup, you could build the motor for higher compression. I would not increase displacement as it would not rev as well and would make the car less driveable.

This might be helpful
View attachment 286725

In the end, if you want to make more power either look at going with a 4b11t setup. The Ralliart is actually a really nice package if you want really fast spool on a budget.

If you really want an NA build, look into getting a transmission adapter for a K-series. There's an art to making HP on an NA car and the Honda K market has it down.
My apologies as I probably wasn't clear, I don't intend to keep it N/A but figured that most people with base 4b11 blocks would be using different sleeves to the 4b11T community, thus my inquiry as to N/A sleeves

The nearest E85 pump is about 45 minutes to an hour from my place so I don't really consider it practical for any car even just a weekend warrior,

I have a similar chart to that one( it only has 4b11 and 4b11t cans on it) but yours is slightly better so I appreciate it!

As for why I wouldn't just go honda...

I don't like them? 馃槄, as I said a buddy of mine is heavy into the Honda scene and I know they can be very good engines and are as customizable as the cars they come off of.

But to be frank if I'm building a mitsubishi I kinda want to build a mitsubishi, that means a mitsu heart even though there may be cheaper or better options out there馃檶馃徎
 

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There's nothing wrong wanting to keep the Mitsu powerplant and the 4B11 is probably the best option for a built N/A as it will rev higher than the 4B12. I think cams and uprated springs and retainers will be you biggest gains with proper tuning and a higher redline. N/A is all about flow and velocity. Headers and a free flowing cat-back. Check out the Blitz intake manifold if you're feeling rich one day ;)
 

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I like this post.

I have a 2014 Lancer Es that I basically want as the body. With the Evo type readiness this car has at awd I want to turn this Lancer into a RWD beauty.
I can't find any "adapter/conversion kit" for a RWD transmission on a 4b11.
Some of you are probably thinking why not just evo x setup and change the awd to rwd. And It just seems like all the lancers and evos take really close routes, and I wanna stand out. No offense but I want my Lancer to be different from the rest even talking body kit.
Do I just find a RWD car setup and run a full swap or do you think I can find a way to use my 4b11? And yes... turbo it
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I like this post.

I have a 2014 Lancer Es that I basically want as the body. With the Evo type readiness this car has at awd I want to turn this Lancer into a RWD beauty.
I can't find any "adapter/conversion kit" for a RWD transmission on a 4b11.
Some of you are probably thinking why not just evo x setup and change the awd to rwd. And It just seems like all the lancers and evos take really close routes, and I wanna stand out. No offense but I want my Lancer to be different from the rest even talking body kit.
Do I just find a RWD car setup and run a full swap or do you think I can find a way to use my 4b11? And yes... turbo it
Hey man, sorry I haven updated this post in a while, life threw me a curve ball but I do have a lot of more research done and will put together a post when I'm off with what I've found out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Alright boys, Sorry for how long its been since I made this initial post, life has been a little crazy but I've been working on this as have time, Ill add photos later but for now here is a write-up of everything I know so-far.

-1. Block Hierarchy
So lets start things off with what blocks are what and which ones are better in what application.

The first thing to understand is that Chrysler, Mitsubishi and Hyundai DO share a nearly identical engine block, while this is well known and parts compatibility is generally accepted here are the differences I've been able to find.

The first thing is one I'm still looking into but is something that has been inherited from the 4G6# Series of engines, Anyone who has worked with the 4G6# Family of engines should be familiar with the differences between "Narowblock" and "Wideblock" engines.

From what I've been able to find that bolt pattern was carried over to the world series of engines, from the blocks I've been able to get my hands on it seems to have gone something like this


............................................................................/---- Hyundai RWD Wideblock (Opendeck, Frontsump, Aside from the 4B11T the most custom block) {Different hard-points for the accessories}
........................................................................../
......................................................................../------- Hyundai FWD Narrowblock (Alot of sub variants here) {Opendeck, Turbo and N/A no real block differences}
....................................................................../
4G6#-(Wide & Narrow)-World Series-- Mitsubishi FWD Narrowblock (N/A) (Opendeck, Different sized crank and piston bushings/bearings)
......................................................................\
........................................................................\------- Mitsubishi FWD Narrowblock (Turbo) {Semiclosed deck, stronger internals, different sized crank and piston bushings/bearings)
..........................................................................\
............................................................................\---- Chrysler FWD Narrowblock (N/A except for the SRT4) {Opendeck, N\A is kinda shit, SRT4 is an exelent engine and is inbetween the 4B and G4}


-2. Oiling Issues

Lets be honest, all of the world series engines have oiling issues of some form or another, the only thing you can do is to make sure you torque everything down to spec have a good oil-pump and keep your res full, any suggestions here would be appreciated

As for oiling on a FWD to RWD conversion you have two options, You can buy the ladderfame (The Hyundai guys call them upper oil pans) Oil pump and front cover from a Hyundai Genesis (for a front sump) or custom make a rear sump / dry-sump setup.

The oil passages on the Genesis are the same as the N/A FWD Blocks so its the easiest path IMO, However then you have to make a adapter for the top 2/3rds of the transmission to bolt up.

I'm not sure on if the Genesis Oil-pan will work the 4B11T block as I don't have one on hand and know that the head at least has an extra oil passage.


-3. Stronger pistons / rods

So you want to build a N/A Motor and need stronger internals? Well to be honest you are out of luck馃槀 Mitsubishi decided to use a In between size for the crank and piston sizes (Possibly another legacy from the 4g6# days)

Because of this there is not really a lot of performance parts for our N/A engines, I was only able to fine 1 (yes 1!) company that sells upgraded rods for the N/A platform.

So how do you feel about Maxspedingrods? 馃槀 Because that's you only option without modifying either your crank or rods, or you can order custom but that's expensive.

After talking with my buddy who works at a machine shop I decided to give them a go, To be honest they are much nicer then I expected once I've got budget set aside they will be getting modified.

So I've got rods but what about pistons, Again Mitsubishi decided to go with strange wrist-pin sizes (21mm), Because of this I had planned on using a set of pistons from a Honda K-Series and modifying the rods, since then I've found that a couple of AUDI engines use 21mm Wrist pins so I will be looking into that and will update this with what I find out.

The most important thing to keep in mind is oiling and compression, check all your measurements thrice


-4. Strengthening the block

Onto The blocks, the N/A platforms by design aren't made for big power I'd say 275HP is probably the max safe on a stock N/A block.

If you want to make more power you have a couple of options, Sleeves, Pinning or a Deckguard, each of which has advantages and disadvantages.

So Sleeves are the most expensive option but the best, It'll give you the strongest block and if done properly the longest lifespan for your project.

Pinning is probably the cheapest option but is my least favorite, it does strengthen the block but I've seen unspeakable horrors from it being done improperly so I definitely prefer a;

Deckguard, Cheap, if designed and installed properly it is stronger and safer then pinning and is reasonably affordable to have installed.


-5. Turbocharging a N/A Motor

You've got your block strengthened and upgraded your pistons and rods, now you're onto choosing a turbo and thankfully here you have a-lot of stock and aftermarket options

Evo / Ralliart

What I'd go for as the manifolds match the exhaust ports on the engine and there is plenty of aftermarket support for upgrades


Hyundai Genesis

The Exhaust ports are a different shape so they will need ported but all the bolts lineup and the turbo is a good quality


Hyundai 6th generation Sonata and 3rd generation Optima

It's part of the World family but I've not had a chance to look into them, they "should" be compatible though


Dodge Caliber SRT4

Same as the Sonata and Optima turbos, Part of the family and should be compatible but I'm not sure about porting


-6. Intake

I have a Hyundai Genesis Intake and again although the it has a different port shape is otherwise compatible, for RWD it is your only option unless you go custom.

I recently got some high temp filament and once I upgrade my 3d printer I will be making a custom manifold for a larger throttle-body and and return fuel system


-7. Accessories

With the exception of the hardpoints on the Genesis engine being changed to better suit a RWD application all of the other engines seem to share a common accessory system.

this is where you have to get creative based on your application, I'm still working things out and will probably be the focus of my next update.


-8. Transmission

I'd suggest taking a look at the projectzerog.com forum for transmission options but to summarize your RWD options:

Wideblock:
Stock Starion Transmission
Mazda B2600 / RX7 Transmission
Chad Samuel's T56 adapter
Stock Genesis Transmission


Narrowblock:
D50 Transmission from a narrowblock truck
Bill Hincher's Toyota adapters
PMC Motorsport RX8 Transmission adapter


-9. My build

So for this project here is my parts list so far

4B11 Block
G4 Upper Oil Pan / Pump
Maxspeedingrods rods
Pistons from a Honda but might get switched out for some from a Audi
Intake from a G4 But Will be changed to a custom 3d printed one
Exhaust manifold from a EVO X
Turbo from a Ralliart but it will be upgraded later
Deckguard from RZCrew
Genesis Transmission



Thx for your guys interest and sorry for how long its been, it'll probably be until after I move before I update again but If I find out anything major I will post it here.

If anyone has any questions just lmk and I'll do my best to answer them

-Casey
 
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