... continued from last post:
At ~29k miles on the car and ~5k miles on the Exedy Stage 2, the car became a daily driver again. I quickly grew more and more annoyed and frustrated with the Exedy. Trying to drive smoothly to work in the morning was almost impossible. Either rev the engine to over 2k rpms, or have the engagement be very rough and jerky. Trying to baby it and start up at a normal pace was impossible.
So when I started having clutch drag issues after 4 more thousand miles of daily driving on the Exedy, I was frustrated but also relieved. I hadn't planned on needing to replace the clutch for several more years, and had been saving to buy wheels/tires and coilovers. But I knew that I had a chance to go back and do it over again and do more research and find a better clutch. I was excited to acutally enjoy driving the car again. So I spent litterally 3 weeks researching and searching for the right clutch.
My Criteria for the new clutch
- Smoother engagement and better pedal feel for daily driving.
- Able to withstand my power goals (now ~380who/wtq)
- Able to withstand the abuse of racing. Auto-x and track days (I don't and have no interest in drag racing)
- Reliable. I did not want to worry about having to replace the clutch again after only 9k miles. I wanted it to last a while.
I was immediately drawn towards Twin Disc Clutches. I was under the impression from reading posts on this forum that a twin disc clutch would satisfy all my criteria. It would offer the holding capacity for the additional power, would be a smoother pedal engagement, and would last longer as there as more friction material and surfaces. But I was not going to make the same mistake I did last time and jump into a clutch purchase without digging deaper and doing more research.
First I contacted several venders on here, including MAP, Sean at DSG, and Jack's transmissions. All three were very helpfull and offered good knowledge and great suggestions.
The first thing I learned was that Twin Disc Clutches are NOT a simple solution to my clutch search as I had thought. Some have a very heavy pedal feel, they don't last any longer then single disc clutches, and that due to the aditional rotational mass of multiple clutch plates they can really wear on and harm your synchro's. However, I was told that the Carbonetics, due to it's lightweight carbon discs, would not be an issue with regards to additional wear on the synchros, and that it also doesn't have a heavy pedal feel.
So, needless to say I was very interested in the Carbonetics Twin. It was the only clutch so far that everyone had said would satisfy my needs. BUT it was also quite expensive, ~$2k.
So I sarted looking again at single disc clutches. At many different manufacturers and all the different clutch materials and designs. However, as much as I searched I couldn't find a single disc that I felt would satisfy my needs as well as the Carbonetics. As labor install on a clutch is already quite a hefty figure, I didn't want to "settle" for something and in another measly 9k miles find myself pissed I made the wrong choice that took away from the fun of the car.
The Evo is an expensive purchase and is my hobby, so I figured why go cheap on a clutch which plays such a vital role in the drivers experience. So I bit the bullet and kissed goodbye to a large portion of my new wheel/tires/coilovers budget (bye-bye coilovers) and bought the carbonetics.
The only criteria that the Carbonetics didn't satisfy, but that no clutch is garunteed to offer, is a garuntee that it will last longer. However, I hope I can, with time, share with the community how well the clutch holds up and how long it lasts.
Impressions after breakin and first auto-x event
I've now had a couple weeks to beat on the clutch and test it some, as well as the first time at the auto-x track this past weekend.
All I can say is I LOVE it still. Going back to my criteria:
- Smoother engagement and better pedal feel for daily driving. Yes.
The pedal is as light as with the stock clutch, and the engagement is beautiful. Yes you can get a tiny bit of jerk/chatter during engagement, but only a very tiny bit, nothing even on the same scale as the Exedy Stage 2. It's actually enough to put a smile on your face when it happens knowing that you have a beast of a clutch under the hood. It's also easy to avoid if you focus just a bit during start up.
- Able to withstand my power goals (now ~380who/wtq). Yes, it's rated for over 700 torque, so I'll be fine!
- Able to withstand the abuse of racing. Auto-x and track days (I don't and have no interest in drag racing) Yes, and very well.
- Reliable. I did not want to worry about having to replace the clutch again after only 9k miles. I wanted it to last a while. We will find out, but form the few other people using the clutch, the reports seem to indicate it has a respectable lifespan. Not to mention it is supposed to be easy/realtivelly cheap to rebuild as the carbon discs actually ware very litte.
Ok, so performance aspects of this clutch:
First, shifting gears is absoultely beautiful now. I do not know how much to attribute to the transmission rebuild by Jack's or to the lightweight clutch. High RPM shifts are amazing though, better then on the stock clutch or the Exedy with the Streetlite flywheel.
Second, The auto-x event had you start straight behind the timing boxes, so I had to launch the car(highlighted to grab drag people's attention as this is probably the only usefull part of my post to them). I was hesitant because i didn't want to launch the car on this clutch, but decided I had bought the clutch to be able to race on so I was going to use it. Having had experience launching on both the stock and the Exedy Stage 2, this clutch puts both those to shame. I'm probably better at launching the car now after having practice and experience on those clutches, but I was stunned by how well the Carbonetics clutch engaged on launches. This clutch, which was soo smooth during daily driving, would bite so hard when launching. Due to the large range of pedal motion, controlling that engagement was very easy. Rev to 4500, quickly release clutch till it's biting hard, let off the rest of the way appropriately as to keep the rpms in the sweet spot. The Carbonetics Twin clutch just grabbed. I was very impressed. I was also very quick off the line.
The auto-x course also had a pinpoint turn needing to be heal-toe'd down into first, as well as a straight at the end needing to be shifted up into 3rd. I abused the clutch, and it performed beautifully.
The Fine Print
I feel I must include this as I am still investigating 1 remaining noise. When the car is fully warmed, and I sit idling at 750 rpms for a bit of time, something in the transmission/clutch area starts vibrating at a resonance frequency. Using my foot to pull RPMS up to 1k stops the vibration, and I never hear the vibration elsewhere.
As the shop that installed the clutch didn't fully tighten the motor mounts, I plan on jacking the car up this weekend and testing every bolt I can find in and around the transmission to make sure it's tight. However, having spoken to ATS & Across as well as Jack's Transmissions, this isn't something wrong with the clutch as the noise occurs independant of wheter clutch is engaged or not, and does not vary with RPM level.
However, while there isn't anything wrong with the clutch, the clutch could be contributing to the noise. THIS IS THE FINE PRINT: (I'm quoting a reply from Jack at Jack's transmission, which is what I believe is the noise/problem)
video of the transmission vibration noise
Thanks for reading!
At ~29k miles on the car and ~5k miles on the Exedy Stage 2, the car became a daily driver again. I quickly grew more and more annoyed and frustrated with the Exedy. Trying to drive smoothly to work in the morning was almost impossible. Either rev the engine to over 2k rpms, or have the engagement be very rough and jerky. Trying to baby it and start up at a normal pace was impossible.
So when I started having clutch drag issues after 4 more thousand miles of daily driving on the Exedy, I was frustrated but also relieved. I hadn't planned on needing to replace the clutch for several more years, and had been saving to buy wheels/tires and coilovers. But I knew that I had a chance to go back and do it over again and do more research and find a better clutch. I was excited to acutally enjoy driving the car again. So I spent litterally 3 weeks researching and searching for the right clutch.
My Criteria for the new clutch
- Smoother engagement and better pedal feel for daily driving.
- Able to withstand my power goals (now ~380who/wtq)
- Able to withstand the abuse of racing. Auto-x and track days (I don't and have no interest in drag racing)
- Reliable. I did not want to worry about having to replace the clutch again after only 9k miles. I wanted it to last a while.
I was immediately drawn towards Twin Disc Clutches. I was under the impression from reading posts on this forum that a twin disc clutch would satisfy all my criteria. It would offer the holding capacity for the additional power, would be a smoother pedal engagement, and would last longer as there as more friction material and surfaces. But I was not going to make the same mistake I did last time and jump into a clutch purchase without digging deaper and doing more research.
First I contacted several venders on here, including MAP, Sean at DSG, and Jack's transmissions. All three were very helpfull and offered good knowledge and great suggestions.
The first thing I learned was that Twin Disc Clutches are NOT a simple solution to my clutch search as I had thought. Some have a very heavy pedal feel, they don't last any longer then single disc clutches, and that due to the aditional rotational mass of multiple clutch plates they can really wear on and harm your synchro's. However, I was told that the Carbonetics, due to it's lightweight carbon discs, would not be an issue with regards to additional wear on the synchros, and that it also doesn't have a heavy pedal feel.
So, needless to say I was very interested in the Carbonetics Twin. It was the only clutch so far that everyone had said would satisfy my needs. BUT it was also quite expensive, ~$2k.
So I sarted looking again at single disc clutches. At many different manufacturers and all the different clutch materials and designs. However, as much as I searched I couldn't find a single disc that I felt would satisfy my needs as well as the Carbonetics. As labor install on a clutch is already quite a hefty figure, I didn't want to "settle" for something and in another measly 9k miles find myself pissed I made the wrong choice that took away from the fun of the car.
The Evo is an expensive purchase and is my hobby, so I figured why go cheap on a clutch which plays such a vital role in the drivers experience. So I bit the bullet and kissed goodbye to a large portion of my new wheel/tires/coilovers budget (bye-bye coilovers) and bought the carbonetics.
The only criteria that the Carbonetics didn't satisfy, but that no clutch is garunteed to offer, is a garuntee that it will last longer. However, I hope I can, with time, share with the community how well the clutch holds up and how long it lasts.
Impressions after breakin and first auto-x event
I've now had a couple weeks to beat on the clutch and test it some, as well as the first time at the auto-x track this past weekend.
All I can say is I LOVE it still. Going back to my criteria:
- Smoother engagement and better pedal feel for daily driving. Yes.
The pedal is as light as with the stock clutch, and the engagement is beautiful. Yes you can get a tiny bit of jerk/chatter during engagement, but only a very tiny bit, nothing even on the same scale as the Exedy Stage 2. It's actually enough to put a smile on your face when it happens knowing that you have a beast of a clutch under the hood. It's also easy to avoid if you focus just a bit during start up.
- Able to withstand my power goals (now ~380who/wtq). Yes, it's rated for over 700 torque, so I'll be fine!
- Able to withstand the abuse of racing. Auto-x and track days (I don't and have no interest in drag racing) Yes, and very well.
- Reliable. I did not want to worry about having to replace the clutch again after only 9k miles. I wanted it to last a while. We will find out, but form the few other people using the clutch, the reports seem to indicate it has a respectable lifespan. Not to mention it is supposed to be easy/realtivelly cheap to rebuild as the carbon discs actually ware very litte.
Ok, so performance aspects of this clutch:
First, shifting gears is absoultely beautiful now. I do not know how much to attribute to the transmission rebuild by Jack's or to the lightweight clutch. High RPM shifts are amazing though, better then on the stock clutch or the Exedy with the Streetlite flywheel.
Second, The auto-x event had you start straight behind the timing boxes, so I had to launch the car(highlighted to grab drag people's attention as this is probably the only usefull part of my post to them). I was hesitant because i didn't want to launch the car on this clutch, but decided I had bought the clutch to be able to race on so I was going to use it. Having had experience launching on both the stock and the Exedy Stage 2, this clutch puts both those to shame. I'm probably better at launching the car now after having practice and experience on those clutches, but I was stunned by how well the Carbonetics clutch engaged on launches. This clutch, which was soo smooth during daily driving, would bite so hard when launching. Due to the large range of pedal motion, controlling that engagement was very easy. Rev to 4500, quickly release clutch till it's biting hard, let off the rest of the way appropriately as to keep the rpms in the sweet spot. The Carbonetics Twin clutch just grabbed. I was very impressed. I was also very quick off the line.
The auto-x course also had a pinpoint turn needing to be heal-toe'd down into first, as well as a straight at the end needing to be shifted up into 3rd. I abused the clutch, and it performed beautifully.
The Fine Print
I feel I must include this as I am still investigating 1 remaining noise. When the car is fully warmed, and I sit idling at 750 rpms for a bit of time, something in the transmission/clutch area starts vibrating at a resonance frequency. Using my foot to pull RPMS up to 1k stops the vibration, and I never hear the vibration elsewhere.
As the shop that installed the clutch didn't fully tighten the motor mounts, I plan on jacking the car up this weekend and testing every bolt I can find in and around the transmission to make sure it's tight. However, having spoken to ATS & Across as well as Jack's Transmissions, this isn't something wrong with the clutch as the noise occurs independant of wheter clutch is engaged or not, and does not vary with RPM level.
However, while there isn't anything wrong with the clutch, the clutch could be contributing to the noise. THIS IS THE FINE PRINT: (I'm quoting a reply from Jack at Jack's transmission, which is what I believe is the noise/problem)
I will post a video of the noise later tonight. Once I check all the bolts are secure, if I don't find a fix to the noise, I will simply have my tune adjusted to idle at 1k rpms and that will solve this problem.
video of the transmission vibration noise
Thanks for reading!
