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Discussion Starter #1
So Fiat finally released specs and pricing on the 2012 500 Abarth. It is to the J-Lo crapbox as our Evos are to a Lancer DE.

Fist off, it looks a hell of a lot better. Second off, the power to weight ratio is insane (160hp / 2500lbs)! Third, its actually a nice car inside and out, albiet small. And finally.... it's priced under $22k! It has more tq than power, at 170ft lb. And it has all 170 of those torques at 2500 RPM. Dyno-wise, it's add about 70% to the 'under-the-curve' area of the torque plot vs the standard 500, too.

Sure it's FWD and small, but you get 27/32mpg, and it pulls just shy of .9 G's stock. This could be a pretty sick little DD or track toy. Anyone else excited to see this coming state-side?






 

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If I didn't live in an area that commonly got snow drifts bigger than that car I'd totally rock it as a DD.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
If they're $22k new, I wonder how much they'll sell for after a 3-year lease? If you can get one in good shape for under $15k, I could totally see a new spec series emerging. Of course assuming they produce/sell enough
 

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I drove them in Europe.... fun car but to expensive....and only good in a city.
The thing is small and for $22k there are many cool cars out there.... the MazdaSpeed3 is $3k more and 10 times the car. And if the Veloster Turbo cost similar (or less) I know what I would get.
The 500 will be a flop in the US no matter what model....

Siyah
 

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Absolutely love this car. Ive been in the abarth ferrari edition which is 180hp, lighter, tweeked suspension and transmission derived from the scuderia 430 and its the best handling front wheel drive car ive ever been in. Absolute blast. Just the way the 500 does everything is what sets it apart from other cars in its class. People who care about that i.e audi bmw owners will love it. I bet lot of mini owners would also buy this.
 

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if only it comes in 4door, ill get one for my wife.
 

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I dunno why I like these little, sporty cars but I'll certainly smile when I see one on the road.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
If "Insane" you mean almost the same as a Neon ACR or Mini Cooper S, then sure. ;)
for a 2500lb car that's only $22k. impact of power is a sliding scale compared to weight. Evo has a better p/w ratio, but it's lugging an extra 1200lbs through each turn. Mini and ACR neon's are about 200lbs heavier, too.... and cost way more.
 
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for a 2500lb car that's only $22k. impact of power is a sliding scale compared to weight. Evo has a better p/w ratio, but it's lugging an extra 1200lbs through each turn. Mini and ACR neon's are about 200lbs heavier, too.... and cost way more.
My point was, it's nothing new or spectacular. Neons and minis (even RSX's) where doing it 10-15 years ago.

Neon ACR more then 22k? Even with inflation I don't think so...
 

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you think 22k is a decent price?
I don't know if I would pay $22k for it, but I don't think it's out of line with similar cars like the Mini. Add on the "tax" for it being a premium edition and it seems logical. Plus, after it's been on sale for a while you will probably be able to get it for less.

The Civic Si hatch was about $20k when I bought one in 2002, but I only ended up paying $17.5k. This thing is smaller / lighter and with similar power.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
My point was, it's nothing new or spectacular. Neons and minis (even RSX's) where doing it 10-15 years ago.

Neon ACR more then 22k? Even with inflation I don't think so...
Mini's are close about 30% more expensive.

ACR's were like $15k back when they were new right? Probably a bit under $22k with inflation. But they had crap torque and and really weren't that good to drive. And it was still a neon =/ Also, cars in the mid 90's were typically lighter than cars are today. The Neon was actually replaced by the Mitsubishi GS platform... aka lancer =/ go figure

The RSX also made less torque than power, and was 200-300lbs heavier.

it's not earth shattering, but for the price, and packaged in car that handles well and looks good, its pretty rare
 

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Very cute car. Not something any male should be driving.
I like that is has a turbo some where in that engine bay and a shift light. Because at 160hp I'm going to be going so fast I need a bright light to tell me when to shift.
 
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Mini's are close about 30% more expensive.

ACR's were like $15k back when they were new right? Probably a bit under $22k with inflation. But they had crap torque and and really weren't that good to drive. And it was still a neon =/ Also, cars in the mid 90's were typically lighter than cars are today. The Neon was actually replaced by the Mitsubishi GS platform... aka lancer =/ go figure

The RSX also made less torque than power, and was 200-300lbs heavier.

it's not earth shattering, but for the price, and packaged in car that handles well and looks good, its pretty rare
You obviously are going to fight to the death before you see any bit of any point I am trying to make. You are finding anything not 1:1 and saying "not the same thing". Next you are going to say the Neon doesn't have a scorpion on the engine so it's "not the same thing".

I honestly cannot believe you are making fun of a neon in the same thread you are praising an Italian(!) Micro Mini that looks like a frog.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
your pretty much doing exactly what you're predicting I'll do ("finding anything not 1:1" and arguing about it). I'm saying the Abarth 500 is interesting not because it does any one thing better than everything else, but because it does a lot of things at a high level in a balance that most cars never achieve. Then you pick one point (power/weight ratio) and point out that there are other cars that are similar in that spec. So I point out why that's out of balance. What next, you're going going to pick price and say "yea, well the Mazda2 is like $5k less; ergo, the fiat blows"? :rolleyes:

:potkettle:

So again:
Mini - different price range for the same performance
Neon- different era, crappy torque, only light because it scraps all featues/luxury
RSX - different price range, crappy torque

In all those cases, you give a lot just be in the same playing field only in terms of one attribute: power/weight. It's rare to see a new car be so well balanced.

But I guess you're going to argue to the death that the Fiat and italians are horrible ;) fwiw, I'm also super excited to see the Alfa 4c, and I think the Lancia Startos was one of the coolest cars ever. Can we just agree to disagree?
 

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Did you mean:

Mini - different price range for the same performance
Neon - different era, crappy torque, only light because it scraps all featues/luxury
RSX - different price range, crappy torque
 
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