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Forged Performance: Alpha 10 GT-R Pump Gas Record + 957whp C16

5062 Views 44 Replies 18 Participants Last post by  [email protected], 
Chadbee@Forged
We've had the pleasure to work on many of Doug's fun project cars over the years, but this one is definitely the pinnacle of his collection. His car made it back down to us from his home in Illinois after only being back in his hands for a few months. His previous 630 whp setup just wasn't enough to satisfy his need for power. He wanted a true street monster that would wax just about anything in its path while still being a civilized daily driver. The heart of the build consisted of an AMS Alpha 10 setup paired with our FP1-R 3.8L in-house assembled power plant capped with a pair of our FP Spec big valve cylinder heads. With these power goals in mind, several areas need to be upgraded including the engine, transmission, brakes, suspension, wheels and tires...the works.

Many of you recognize our tradition of building balanced track worthy cars that can still be driven daily. When tasked with building a very fast street car, our balanced philosophy is no different. We added a properly sprung set of JRZ RS Pro Silent Edition Coilovers, our Forged Performance Extreme Performance Sway Bar Set with Racing End Links, Endless MX72 brake pads, and a custom spec'd set of 20X10 20X12 HRE wheels wrapped in a square set of Michelin Pilot Super Sport Tires 315/35/20. We even installed a discrete Passport 9500ci radar detector and laser jammer to offer some modicum of protection from the law. :)The acceleration is neck snapping while the handling remains razor sharp. Our transmission shifts superbly on the upshift and downshift, responding instantaneously to the paddles. There is a lot to be said for a car that not only makes tremendous power, but can also effectively lay it down to the ground and that's what we've accomplished here.

While we were planning this project, we knew this car was going to be a beast, but we weren't quite prepared for the end result, especially since we consider this a fast spooling balanced daily driven setup. After Sharif worked his magic in front of his Thinkpad, we made an incredible 838 whp @ 24psi on 93 octane on our low reading Dyno Dynamics! Like most shops that use unlinked dyno rollers, we ran the car in 2wd mode in order to preseve the front drive clutches. We were not 100% sure, so we had to confirm with AMS that this was in fact the highest WHP Alpha 10 on 93 octane to date. This car also made 957 whp @ 30psi at 8000rpm on C16 before our dyno gave out. Until we update our dyno software and run larger gauge power cables to the dyno, It appears we are going to have to go to another local dyno to complete the race gas tune on this monster. Stay tuned for updated race gas numbers in the near future! With 5psi left to go, it's no doubt this beast has more room to run.

***CLICK HERE FOR VIDEO: FORGED PERFORMANCE BUILT AND TUNED 957 WHP GT-R***


Performance Modifications:
Forged Performance FP1-R Shortblock
FP Spec ARIAS Extreme Duty Zero Silicon Pistons
Manley Turbo Tuff I-Beam Rods
Forged Performance Stage 5 Ported and Polished Heads and Bronze Valve Guides
Tomei 272/272 ProCams VR38 Camshafts
Ferrea VR38 Full Valvetrain Kit w/ 1mm Oversized Valves
ARP L19 Head and Main Studs
HKS Head Gasket
AMS Alpha 10 Turbo Kit
AMS GT-R FMIC Kit
AMS GT-R Alpha IC Piping kit
Injector Dynamic 2000cc injectors
T1 Race Development Fuel Rails
FP Spec Fuel System with -8 Line Upgrade
CBRD Radiator
GTC 102mm Titan Exhaust & Y Pipe
PPG 1st Gear
FP Spec Stage 4 Dodson GR6 Upgrade Package (Promax Clutch, PPG 1st gear)
Transmission Assembly and Overhaul Performed In House at Forged
Cobb AccessPort w/ TCM

Other Upgrades:
JRZ RS Pro Silent Edition Coilovers
Password JDM 38mm Wide Front Fenders
HRE P40 20x10.5/20x12 Flat Black
Michelin Pilot Super Sport 315/35/20
Escort 9500CI Laser Shifter & Radar Detector Kit
Forged Performance Extreme Performance Sway Bar Set
Forged Performance Racing Stainless Steel Brake Line Kit
OS Giken Rear TCD Differential

Pictures of the work:




















93 Octane:


C16 Racegas:
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VegetaX
damn that thing must be sick fast, RWD?
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C
Thanks so much for using our Radiator!

cb
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chetrickerman
Look at that tiny rear sway bar in comparison to everything else. :bowlol:
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Chadbee@Forged
chetrickerman said:
Look at that tiny rear sway bar in comparison to everything else. :bowlol:
Click to expand...
Ha! To be honest its pretty large compared to the OEM unit:

http://www.forgedperformance.com/index.php?option=com_wordpress&p=419&Itemid=159
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KickAss
Gojira, it eats Dynos... :bowlol:
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C
LOL- I'd call that a sway bar upgrade for sure ;)

on JRZ's with that power--- must be mcnasty!

cb
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T
Forged strikes again haha
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kirradude1025
Why the hell did you take the front axles out?
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VegetaX
kirradude1025 said:
Why the hell did you take the front axles out?
Click to expand...
thats why im asking too lol
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Chadbee@Forged
kirradude1025 said:
Why the hell did you take the front axles out?
Click to expand...
VegetaX said:
thats why im asking too lol
Click to expand...
I know the OP is long guys, but it is in there.

"Like most shops that use unlinked dyno rollers, we ran the car in 2wd mode in order to preseve the front drive clutches."

Just to go a little more in depth, the front drive clutches are perfectly happy driving the front wheels as long as the front and rear rollers are working and locked together, just like they would work on a public road. On an un-linked dyno system such as the Dyno Dynamics, or DynoJet, running the car in 4WD mode means the front drive system is spinning up the front roller without help from the rear. This would be like standing the car on it's nose and accelerating it down the street. AMS, Shep, and pretty much all the tuners agree on this. We are working on a custom modification to our dyno, where we will link the rollers together. For extended tuning sessions, it's simply a lower risk approach to disable the front drive. This would make our life much easier as R/R'ing front shaft gets old. Keep in mind, we only do this on builds that approach 700whp and beyond. For stock turbo setups we feel the risks are minimal and continue using the dyno in 4WD mode.
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VegetaX
so that means if you put it in 4wd theres a higher whp lost?
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trick3d
Yeah I would think there would be more parasitic loss.
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kirradude1025
Doesn't this represent an untrue amount of horsepower though?
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VegetaX
^ thats why i ask, having it awd will give the real whp.
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E
kirradude1025 said:
Doesn't this represent an untrue amount of horsepower though?
Click to expand...
I actually was posting about this in response to Forged post on other forum.
I guess I will post it here too, it will be interesting to get some response from them on subject.

Not to be an ass to Forged... but most R35's I've seen, were dyno in 4WD. So considering your dyno was set in 2WD mode for that run. You should deduct about 10% to compare this run with any R35's run in AWD.

So:
Pump gas 838-10%=754.2WHP

Let's be generous and let's say 5%
838-5%=796AWHP Pump
957-5%=909AWHP C16

That's your record.

And as far as your "super low reading dyno" argument, that I've heard from Forged before.
I've seen a while ago a GTR that was tuned at your shop with supposedly 500+ AWHP (Access port) and same car few days later was making only 425AWHP on other Dyno Dynamics dyno. (to make it clear owner was just trying to dyno on other DD for comparison)
My car was making similar power there and on any other DD I was on before so I know for certain their dyno was set properly.
Which brings me to conclusion that your dyno is only as "low reading" as you want it to be...

And if you want to prove me wrong. Run car in 4WD same boost, pump gas. But post a full dyno file not just graph. So we can see all the parameters, temperature, pressure, correction etc.
Then we'll see how much of a record we have here.

I have looked through your dyno graphs, and to put your car power delivery and numbers in perspective:


HKS GT800 on HKS dyno
If you look at the dyno graph from their runs you will see that:
HKS R35 GT800 makes:
- 200ps more at 4000rpm
- 75ps more at 5000rpm
- and same power at 7K rpm that your car makes

HKS car runs same boost 24psi.

Which means that you have accomplished to tune R35 with no low rpm power and torque. Congratulations. I will leave you with this to contemplate...
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trick3d
But guy it's AMS and FP no way they would lie.
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C
then put this on a DJ and see 50 more whp ;)

ive seen cars that have made DJ numbers make 50-60 less whp on forged DD!



cb

good work forged- always some nay-sayers-
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E
trick3d said:
But guy it's AMS and FP no way they would lie.
Click to expand...
A good one there...

AMS will back up any of his dealers, it's their parts being sold, right?
You can't blame them for it. Their parts are good.

I am posting my findings and questions here just to share it with other people. I am actually waiting for Forged to response to be honest.
However they didn't respond at all to any of my posts.
I guess they have learned their lesson from arguing with that poor G37 guy last year, after beating his downpipes with hammer to make it fit and making hell of a mess on his car.

Anyway back to subject.
It always amuses me when I see claims "World Fastest ..." bla bla bla.
It's same situation when Extreme Tuners from Greece posted On Evom in response to AMS "World most powerful EVO" claim and... well it came out that actually Extreme Tuners EVO was way more radical and faster and more powerful than AMS. They did not post there to bash on anybody, just to make numbers straight.

As far as quality of Forged build. That's why I posted link to HKS GT800 R35 if you will compare both dyno graphs you can clearly see difference in quality of tuning.
60K $ Alpha 10 kit and car makes approximately 200ps less at 4000 rpm, 75ps less at 5000 rpm and respectively same power at redline. (after you correct Forged number for running in 2WD) And don't listen to any BS that "it doesn't matter" when dyno is in 2WD mode. It does, dyno uses different calculations in 2WD and final number will be higher than running in 4WD.
I've heard these arguments from Forged many times. If you don't believe me call Dyno Dynamics and ask.

I've seen Forged bragging about their achievements for long time and finally had to say something. They're "awesome" in taking pictures and making claims, but from what I've heard from some of their customers, is that what's happening at Forged is simply "over promising and under delivering".

Graphs are best comparison here I think. So you can make your own judgement. Just compare "HKS" and "Forged" dyno graphs and you will see huge differences.
Anybody can make big number at redline on project like this with huge money in it. But only great tuner can make that power accessible in broad range of rpm. As it supposed to be.
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nkbourgeois
I would like to say that ive spent some time at forged shop and they are a quality company. I am very happy with my build and if you dont like their work I suggest you try to race any of their shop cars.
You will get your ass kicked.
People don't fly cars in from Dubai on a regular basis for no reason.
If they want to run a 900whp car on rwd settings for safety thats their own preference. The only numbers you can post as your dyno records are the ones that come off of a dyno.. calculation and speculation only do so much.
The car will probably would make a little less on awd settings, but who gives a shit. Look at that build and tell me its not beautiful. I'm sure it drives like a champ so who cares about peak dyno numbers? Every dyno is different anyway so why argue over 5-10%?
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