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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys,

Here is my rant...
I live in Alberta, Canada and we really lack quality local tuners really bad to the point where I dont trust them enough to let them tune my car. Keeping that on mind, I decided to try the Cobb AP.

My car:
-2011 X GSR
-9000 miles
-Running 94 octane
-100% stock besides the HKS high power cat back
-Running the 93 octane OTS map from cobb for a stock car

I decided to do some logs to make sure my baby was running good. All 4 logs were done within 5 minutes of each other at abot 30F at 3500 ft.

I checked the first log and I wasnt impressed but I was able to live with that UNTIL I saw log #2!! Have you even seen knock like that? how is that even possible? Logs #3 and #4 are not THAT bad.

So here we go...

How can Cobb sell products for that much money that dont perform properly?? that knock level is just not acceptable! I emailed this person at Cobb (forgot his name) for help and no response after 2 weeks! I really dont undestand Cobb at all and wish we had good tuners like you guys do in the states! The 2011 evos came out about 15 months ago and Cobb still doesnt have any intake maps or stage 2 maps out yet !! My brand new AMS cai arrived like 6 months ago at my place in hope those maps would be ready soon. So after all that I only see 2 options.. Flashing back to stock or flash the 91 octane map and still run 94 octane gas hoping that would give me some protection and do some logs. ( I dont know if running the 91 map with 94 octane gas would make this any better )

Im really sorry about this stupid rant but I really need some advice from you guys.
Thanks a lot and sorry again for the rant!
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
anyone?
 

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Ok so, let me break this down for you home skillet.

First of all, an occasional log with a lot of knock (yours is not a *LOT* of knock, when you hit like 15 counts of knock, thats a *LOT* of knock - and I know people who have had logs maxed out showing 40+ counts - engine survived no problem) isn't unheard of. I've done 4 pulls one after the other, 3 with 0 to 1 count of knock, and 1 with literally 18 counts of knock. Why did it happen? I have no clue, it just did, nothing changed, the boost, the timing, the fuel, the temperature, EVERYTHING remained the same.

Secondly, the Cobb Stage 1 maps are fairly agressive on timing, a lot of people choose to run the stage 2 maps instead even when their car is totally stock to add a level of safety (I did, though I opted for a pro tune shortly after).

Third, you are in Alberta. It's probably so cold there right now that you could use your nipples to cut glass. That being said, the Cobb OTS tunes, if I can recall correctly, where tuned in beautiful Southern California, where it's a beautiful 70 degress out almost every day of the year.

So, my recommendation is to one, take a deep breath my friend, your car is perfectly fine. Second, I realize the stage 2 map isn't out yet (which is actually really lame), so the next best thing is to flash the 91 octane map and do some more logs. If you don't see any knock keep it and then when it warms up, flash back the 93 octane map and call it a day.

To be honest, you could probably leave the car as is and beat the hell out of it and it would be fine, but it's ALWAYS better to be safe than sorry. You don't have a TON of knock, and it appears that it isn't really all that consistent. You might consider doing more logs on your current map and see if you can see a pattern of knock in the same RPM/load ranges.

You can also plot your logs in virtual dyno and look at the dyno graph. Real knock will generally show a loss of power where it occurs. If you see a obvious dip in your TQ or HP curve that can give you an idea if it's real knock or not. Keep in mind, you're logging Knock Sum, which is only the # of counts of knock the engine *THINKS* it has detected. This doesn't mean it's REAL knock, nor does it mean it's a big deal. The car will only pull timing once it reaches a KnockSum of 3, so even MITSU realized that a lot of this knock isn't real and doesn't require timing or fuel adjustments to compensate for the detected knock.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks a lot for your help! And yes that knock was not that bad, I guess im just over protective with my car lol And yea its really cold up here you should of heard the noises the car made when I left it outside all night at -45C (I think that is around-35F) oh man those noises were horrible and the cobb AP maps dont help at all since they are designed for "normal" weather. I PM'd Clipse to ask about the etune and he never replied so Im just gonna do more logs on this map and then try the 91 map and more logs
 

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If Cobb's boost control follows the style I'm familiar with...

...in the second log, you were above boost targets when your knock was occurring. See the "WGDC Corr (%)" column. It went negative from 3300rpm to 4500rpm... the ECU was reducing the boost control solenoid's duty cycle due to being over-target.

By the time 4600rpm came around, boost/load was presumably on-target - error correction was back to zero.


Overnight temps at -45C? Then IMHO the system (and tune) coped surprisingly well! That's stupidly cold! 94oct fuel must be good stuff...

Rich
 

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Ok so, let me break this down for you home skillet.

First of all, an occasional log with a lot of knock (yours is not a *LOT* of knock, when you hit like 15 counts of knock, thats a *LOT* of knock - and I know people who have had logs maxed out showing 40+ counts - engine survived no problem) isn't unheard of. I've done 4 pulls one after the other, 3 with 0 to 1 count of knock, and 1 with literally 18 counts of knock. Why did it happen? I have no clue, it just did, nothing changed, the boost, the timing, the fuel, the temperature, EVERYTHING remained the same.

Secondly, the Cobb Stage 1 maps are fairly agressive on timing, a lot of people choose to run the stage 2 maps instead even when their car is totally stock to add a level of safety (I did, though I opted for a pro tune shortly after).

Third, you are in Alberta. It's probably so cold there right now that you could use your nipples to cut glass. That being said, the Cobb OTS tunes, if I can recall correctly, where tuned in beautiful Southern California, where it's a beautiful 70 degress out almost every day of the year.

So, my recommendation is to one, take a deep breath my friend, your car is perfectly fine. Second, I realize the stage 2 map isn't out yet (which is actually really lame), so the next best thing is to flash the 91 octane map and do some more logs. If you don't see any knock keep it and then when it warms up, flash back the 93 octane map and call it a day.

To be honest, you could probably leave the car as is and beat the hell out of it and it would be fine, but it's ALWAYS better to be safe than sorry. You don't have a TON of knock, and it appears that it isn't really all that consistent. You might consider doing more logs on your current map and see if you can see a pattern of knock in the same RPM/load ranges.

You can also plot your logs in virtual dyno and look at the dyno graph. Real knock will generally show a loss of power where it occurs. If you see a obvious dip in your TQ or HP curve that can give you an idea if it's real knock or not. Keep in mind, you're logging Knock Sum, which is only the # of counts of knock the engine *THINKS* it has detected. This doesn't mean it's REAL knock, nor does it mean it's a big deal. The car will only pull timing once it reaches a KnockSum of 3, so even MITSU realized that a lot of this knock isn't real and doesn't require timing or fuel adjustments to compensate for the detected knock.
Good stuff, but just to add, false knock can also cause the hp/tq to drop if it has enough counts because it will still pull timing
 
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