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Discussion Starter #1
A questing for you pro tuners out there, [email protected], Clipse, etc. How important do you feel the actual dyno is when doing a tune. I've heard that Dynos like a Dyno Dynamics, since it can put different load values on the car while tuning, will allow a more thorough and better tune. Whereas a Dynojet cannot? First of all, is this true, and how much of a difference does it actually make? Should I choose one shop over another if they are both reputable based upon the type of Dyno they use?

If you don't mind, for the sake of fairness, could you also list what type of Dyno you use, I don't expect people to be entirely objective, but do your best!

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Giving this a friendly bump, I don't think this has been asked before =]
 

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I am not a pro tuner... but a Dyno is just a tool.... if you get a baseline of 200hp or 1000000 hp it doesnt matter which Dyno it is off of because it is just a number..... Then they work up from there... Say baseline is 200 and after tune is 320 well now you know you gained 120hp, in this case the dyno only matters for the number but you as the owner knows you gained X amount of hp/tq...

As for Clipse I believe he uses a "virtual dyno" because he does street tunes, some1 correct me if wrong
 

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The dyno isn't really important it's the difference in power from before and after the tune.
As long as the tuner doesn't change dyno settings for the different runs it should be pretty representative.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I don't think anyone here actually understands the question. This has nothing to do with power, it has to do with thoroughness and quality of the tune. If the Dyno is capable of applying load to the wheels of the car while tuning, tuners are then better able to simulate real driving situations and monitor the affects of this load on engine performance. My question doesn't have anything to do with what a dyno does, or how much power I can make, it has to do with overall quality of a tune. A tune is not just about power, it's about reliability and stability also.

What if your car often gets knock at a certain RPM / load range. If the dyno cannot apply load and get you to that range, perhaps it can't be predicted / avoided by the tuner, and as a result you may have a less safe tune.

I'm not a tuner though, and I don't know all about these things, so I'm basically trying to ask tuners if this is a legitimate concern, or if there are other ways to simulate load, or if it's even necessary to do so to have the best tune possible.
 

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It shouldn't matter, because any tune should be checked on the street to ensure that street loads are accounted for. The dyno is the way to do pull after pull at high rpms and speeds without getting a ticket. Then street drivability should be checked to ensure all is well.
 

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Keep in mind it is the PERCENT CHANGE you're really supposed to be looking for to give it any real world value. The difference is pretty small between the different types when you look at gains, but it's still a skewed figure if you look strictly at power gained.

Example:

Car base lines at 100hp and after tune it hits 210hp

Now we take the same car to a Florida tuner and...

Car base lines at 280hp and after tune it hits 400hp

Original shop says yeah we managed to squeeze an extra 110whp out of this thing! Then Florida guy says he managed 120WHP!!!!

If you look at the relative gains and take the car tuned at shop A down to Florida shop, the gain would've been from 280 to 588. Of course this is an extreeeeme example but you get the idea. Inflated dynos give higher before/after, so it is beneficial for a parts manufacturer to dyno test their parts on higher reading dynos because they can claim their intake netted a 14hp higher peak as opposed to a "heart breaker" dyno only reading 11hp gain. When bench racers are buying their parts, the 14hp one is omfg so much better.
 

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I don't think anyone here actually understands the question. This has nothing to do with power, it has to do with thoroughness and quality of the tune. If the Dyno is capable of applying load to the wheels of the car while tuning, tuners are then better able to simulate real driving situations and monitor the affects of this load on engine performance. My question doesn't have anything to do with what a dyno does, or how much power I can make, it has to do with overall quality of a tune. A tune is not just about power, it's about reliability and stability also.
FYI I've heard Dynojets are far better/easier with respect to appropriate loading than the Crustangs. Continually road tuning to fine tweak a tune is the best route because it uses real-world loading... and you can log what happens on slight inclines and take into account drag resistance on loading, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
FYI I've heard Dynojets are far better/easier with respect to appropriate loading than the Crustangs. Continually road tuning to fine tweak a tune is the best route because it uses real-world loading... and you can log what happens on slight inclines and take into account drag resistance on loading, etc.
That is interesting, because I thought that Dyno Jets were not capable of applying load to the wheels like a Dyno Dynamics can.
 

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Road tunes should always be done at the end to verify the tune.

That said, I've been on 2 different Dyno Jets and they loaded my car almost exactly like a road does.
 

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My understanding was that the Dynapack even though a pain in the ass was a very capable dyno that could add load. But then Marco at Magnus added load to his DynoJet while tuning my car. So I'm not Sure any more.

Newb
 

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That said, I've been on 2 different Dyno Jets and they loaded my car almost exactly like a road does.
Wow, good to know. Re-enforces what I heard regarding DynoJet vs Mustang. DynoDynamics I haven't heard a thing about besides they read lower than low, which is not necessarily a good thing. As you pointed out, it's about correctly applying load while tuning and also having a reliable readout.
 
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Mustang, when properly calibrated and run, matches street load. Here are some tests I did years ago:

I recently did a little test to see how close our Mustang load-bearing dyno replicates real street load.

The main reason I did this is that it is very vital that the load matches the street when tuning ecu-controlled boost as it is a load-target based system. If our dyno wasn't matching street load then all the tuning of the boost on the dyno would have to be redone or cleaned up again on the street after.

Both plots here are done in 3rd gear, one on the street, one on the dyno. The street plot only goes to 6750 as it was a bit busy on the street at the time and I like my current clean driving record. ;)



The answer? Pretty damn close if you ask me.
Here is another overlay. This time a customers car. On and off the dyno same day.



I put the hammer down on the street a little later than the dyno but after that it pretty much lines up everywhere to the dyno.

Notice that the WGDC curve is identical between the two, meaning ecu-boost error correction did not have to kick in to hit the target load on either the dyno, or the street.


And some other data:

Taken from Nasioc but none the less good:




Haha I posted that on our forums as well. I like the way you work Razor lol.


Mitch
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Bump, good info here, but wouldn't mind more opinions from different Tuners :D
 

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you have bryan and mitch in that last post. Jon would most likely agree, and he uses mustangs to tune as well. I think we can call that case closed, no?
 

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Choosing the right Dyno to use is very important in my eyes. Both Mustang and Dyno Dynamics (both I have extensive experience on) are great dynos. I have found that the DD dyno is much better for "cell" tuning. I can always put the car in what cell I want very easily. I prefer DD over the mustang because it is actually measuring the tractive effort the car is exerting. Both Mustang and DD dynos give a very accurate representation of "like road conditions". Dyno Jet on the other hand in my opinion is crap. Yes you can get a eddy break for them to load up the car but it always seems not quite right. Dyno Jet's show stock Evo's at around 250-260 AWHP. That is not correct our cars are only losing 10% power to drive train, not likely. In all of my testing the X loses right around 25% and the GTR loses around 28%. We had a BMW dyno on a dyno jet at 409 AWHP then came to my Dyno Dynamics dyno and it only hit a whopping 310. I know there is no way the car was making 409 with it's basic mods and no tune, so the Dyno Jet was odviously giving an inaccurate number. Dyno Jet's are for Dyno Queens. But in the end a dyno is just a tool just like a wrench or screwdriver. It's about did I see gains or losses. Don't get too hung up in the Dyno numbers game. I would always recommend using a DD or Mustang, but a Dyno Jet with the proper loading setup works if you have no other option.
 
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