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I've been searching the web and getting some conflicting answers. I have a new block, Manley pistons, Tuff Rods, Kelford cams, ARP bolts, GTX3582r turbo, ETS custom exhaust manifold, etc.......

What is the process of breaking-in the engine on an Evo 10 and tuning the engine? My understanding is that you do a base tune, put in non-synthetic oil, change at 100, 500, & 1000 miles, then schedule for a performance tune.

The opposite opinion is that a built engine does not require the same break-in as a stock engine.

What is the best and safest way to do this?
 

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David Buschur's comments on Engine break in. Quoted from Highboostforum.com. Now I realize we are discussing break in of a 4b11T, but I'm sure David's stance would still be the same. The Last part is what I really took from it, and honestly my engines instructor from school had the same idea (He was a Chief in the Navy and is one hella of engineer as well as has built far more complicated engines then what the 4B11T poses. If the engine is built correctly and blue printed, it should be ready to handle whatever you throw at it early in its life. :)

The 4g63 is not a small block Chevy. You do NOT crank it with the fuel disconnected or the ignition unplugged to prime the oiling system. If you truly wanted to try and prime the oiling system before starting a new engine you would need to leave the timing belt off and crank the oil pump seperately. Same thing if you DID have a small block Chevy, you'd spin the oil pump through the distributor hole.

This next stuff applies to OUR ENGINES. I don't care about some other shop or some other machine shop that did YOUR work. Don't ask as I could care less.

For our engines. IF you put your head on, timed it etc. and installed the engine in your car AND you have everything exactly right, the engine should start and run almost immediately after trying to start it. When it does hold the engine at around 1500-2000 rpm and let it stay there. Check it for leaks while it is doing this, check it for anything out of the ordinary. If you are using a standalone check the AFR's, look at the knock count etc. Dial in your AFR's a little so it is where it needs to be to run at this RPM. Hopefully you have a map that is right in the first place and you can just let it run. While the car is warming up the lifters will quiet down as the oil pressure builds and the air gets out of the lifters. Check the coolant, watch the coolant temps.

DO NOT just crank the engine to attempt to build oil pressure, it WILL BUILD INSTANTLY IF THE CAR STARTS.

ALL of our engines are built/assembled with a special lube. It is very sticky. I basically fill the crank shaft with it, so there is quite a bit of lube there and everything is very well coated. The engine could probably actually run with NO oil in it for a few minutes with no damage, we don't want that obviously.

Point is to TRIPLE check every single thing on the car first and then it should start instantly and run.

Once you are sure there are no leaks of any type and everything is tight and triple checked again you can either start some low throttle tuning or go for a drive.

As long as everything is 100% I could care less about a break in. Engines built here/assembled here and installed here are broken in on the dyno about 90% of the time. I have maps perfected for any combination we have. So the car is checked, loaded on the dyno. The idle, part throttle tuning is gone over and a few miles are put on the car at light loads to make sure it runs great and the AFR's are good. I do all the fuel mileage calibrations right on the dyno too. When this is done, the car is looked over again and then the tuning at low boost levels (20 psi or whatever) is done. I generally do the pump gas tunes first so the boost levels are lowest. As soon as they are done then the car is turned up and tuned on race gas if that is part of the build.

It is nothing to have a car with less than 10 miles on it at 40 psi of boost and 10,000 rpm. If it is going to fail then it is going to fail at that point and running it for 2,000 miles (whatever) easy is not going to change that. Running an engine for 2,000 miles to break it in is complete bullshit. It's most companies ways of getting you to take 6 months to be ready to run the car hard and by then they hope the warranty is over.

David Buschur
 

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Discussion Starter #5
David Buschur's comments on Engine break in. Quoted from Highboostforum.com. Now I realize we are discussing break in of a 4b11T, but I'm sure David's stance would still be the same. The Last part is what I really took from it, and honestly my engines instructor from school had the same idea (He was a Chief in the Navy and is one hella of engineer as well as has built far more complicated engines then what the 4B11T poses. If the engine is built correctly and blue printed, it should be ready to handle whatever you throw at it early in its life. :)

The 4g63 is not a small block Chevy. You do NOT crank it with the fuel disconnected or the ignition unplugged to prime the oiling system. If you truly wanted to try and prime the oiling system before starting a new engine you would need to leave the timing belt off and crank the oil pump seperately. Same thing if you DID have a small block Chevy, you'd spin the oil pump through the distributor hole.

This next stuff applies to OUR ENGINES. I don't care about some other shop or some other machine shop that did YOUR work. Don't ask as I could care less.

For our engines. IF you put your head on, timed it etc. and installed the engine in your car AND you have everything exactly right, the engine should start and run almost immediately after trying to start it. When it does hold the engine at around 1500-2000 rpm and let it stay there. Check it for leaks while it is doing this, check it for anything out of the ordinary. If you are using a standalone check the AFR's, look at the knock count etc. Dial in your AFR's a little so it is where it needs to be to run at this RPM. Hopefully you have a map that is right in the first place and you can just let it run. While the car is warming up the lifters will quiet down as the oil pressure builds and the air gets out of the lifters. Check the coolant, watch the coolant temps.

DO NOT just crank the engine to attempt to build oil pressure, it WILL BUILD INSTANTLY IF THE CAR STARTS.

ALL of our engines are built/assembled with a special lube. It is very sticky. I basically fill the crank shaft with it, so there is quite a bit of lube there and everything is very well coated. The engine could probably actually run with NO oil in it for a few minutes with no damage, we don't want that obviously.

Point is to TRIPLE check every single thing on the car first and then it should start instantly and run.

Once you are sure there are no leaks of any type and everything is tight and triple checked again you can either start some low throttle tuning or go for a drive.

As long as everything is 100% I could care less about a break in. Engines built here/assembled here and installed here are broken in on the dyno about 90% of the time. I have maps perfected for any combination we have. So the car is checked, loaded on the dyno. The idle, part throttle tuning is gone over and a few miles are put on the car at light loads to make sure it runs great and the AFR's are good. I do all the fuel mileage calibrations right on the dyno too. When this is done, the car is looked over again and then the tuning at low boost levels (20 psi or whatever) is done. I generally do the pump gas tunes first so the boost levels are lowest. As soon as they are done then the car is turned up and tuned on race gas if that is part of the build.

It is nothing to have a car with less than 10 miles on it at 40 psi of boost and 10,000 rpm. If it is going to fail then it is going to fail at that point and running it for 2,000 miles (whatever) easy is not going to change that. Running an engine for 2,000 miles to break it in is complete bullshit. It's most companies ways of getting you to take 6 months to be ready to run the car hard and by then they hope the warranty is over.

David Buschur
That's what my tuner said but he did not break it down like that. So I guess get the car tuned, then do the oil changes later.
 

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Assuming your engine has moly-faced top rings and round, straight extremely smooth bores the rings will be 99% seated in less than 30 minutes.

Changing the initial oil fill is only needed to remove the assembly lube - there should be a negligible metallic content in the waste oil. Do a spectrograph test to verify how much of what is there.

If engines needed a long "break-in" time then we wouldn't have any 4.0 second dragsters on the planet.
 

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Assuming your engine has moly-faced top rings and round, straight extremely smooth bores the rings will be 99% seated in less than 30 minutes.

Changing the initial oil fill is only needed to remove the assembly lube - there should be a negligible metallic content in the waste oil. Do a spectrograph test to verify how much of what is there.

If engines needed a long "break-in" time then we wouldn't have any 4.0 second dragsters on the planet.
:+1:
 

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If engines needed a long "break-in" time then we wouldn't have any 4.0 second dragsters on the planet.
C'mon. 4sec cars go through an engine rebuild after every run. I bet that's not what you wanted to illustrate. ;)
 

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The team who build and did brake in my engine they changed rpms and let it run at idle , then shut it off . Cool it down then do it again for two days. Since my tuner showed up so we had to put it on the dyno. But this is not a DD car also.

After the dyno, the next start up was a race. Now every start up is a race or a practice/for the engine basically a same/

But we will change barrings - oil and so before every 5th race.
This is a specially for rally engine side of the story. by mile i have around 60-70 miles in it, but as a race engine we as others measure's it by the hour. So the mileage is doesn't really matters.
 

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C'mon. 4sec cars go through an engine rebuild after every run. I bet that's not what you wanted to illustrate. ;)
and many of them doesnt even use a coolant...
 

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True.

I was surprised to find out that some of the Evo drag cars don't, either.

but still 80% of the evo community and almost 100% of the non racers among them , think - prefer the drag race set ups or using them as a preference, never mind the peak hp numbers show downs. LOL
I would understand it, if the evo would be a dedicated drag car or been designed for that like US muscle cars.
The reality is, evo is not a 1/4 mile car, never been designed for that.

i try to help to get my point here with this picture :bowlol: :
 

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C'mon. 4sec cars go through an engine rebuild after every run. I bet that's not what you wanted to illustrate.
So you're reinforcing my point. There is no "Run-In" time. Just all stomp on it and then fix what you broke later.

The main reason for not using coolant is it isn't needed - and it adds a significant amount of wasted time to overhaul the engine. The engines are only running for ~20 seconds TOTAL.The blo0cks and heads are stronger without those hollow coolant passages. Modern dragster engines are machined from solid billet - there is no need to concrete fill them as there are no coolant passages to be filled.

With the alcohol burners, there's huge chunks of ice formed all over the heads after each run. So again no coolant is needed. And no radiator - less weight too.
 

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So you're reinforcing my point. There is no "Run-In" time. Just all stomp on it and then fix what you broke later.
Wait, what? It's as if I just entered an alternate universe. Hate to cite the brutally obvious; the idea is not to break stuff on a new motor. "Stomp on it and then fix what you broke later," is the exact opposite of the concept.
 

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Wait, what? It's as if I just entered an alternate universe. Hate to cite the brutally obvious; the idea is not to break stuff on a new motor. "Stomp on it and then fix what you broke later," is the exact opposite of the concept.
Obviously you're missing the point entirely.

The stress and fatigue failures that occur in that kind of racing have nothing to do with taking a slow, easy run-in. They don't do ANY run-in time because it's not needed. And changing all engine internals is more insurance that anything else - those guys have lots of $$$ sitting on their performance. It's certainly more $$$ than what it costs to swap all those engine parts.

And you're implying that doing a run-in period of light duty, low RPM usage will increase engine power [in racing engines] and that is NOT the case. It does, perhaps, give an opportunity to find assembly mistakes at a low performance level so less damage is done - like a rod bolt was not properly tightened.

But if it was assembled propelry with proper, quality parts then there is no need to do the slow/low stuff in these racing engines.

Keep in mind that the Mitsu recommendations - which are very common amongst auto mfgrs - applies to the WHOLE car. For example everyone agrees that brakes need to be heat cycled and bedded-in. Some people would say htat that beark-in period is merely a delay in performing any warranty work with the claim "It's not run-in yet. Give it a few more thousand miles."
 

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Obviously you're missing the point entirely.
No, I understand completely. You just used a silly example that pointed your argument in a wrong direction. Instead of simply saying, "Dolt, I goofed," you decided to to see if you could spin your way out of it and it clearly did not work.
 
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