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Discussion Starter #81
Ahh ok. So you are only seeing the lag out of a dig then right? Otherwise its pretty much in powerband the whole time through shifts? Between 5000ish-8500?
Oh yeah there's no lag in that rpm. So what I'm really saying is the boost threshold is like 5000rpm not 4200-4500 rpm as other posts led me to believe
 

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I wouldn't consider an 8374 laggy. The turbo rips above 4K rpm, 4.2k rpm on some setups. Really depends on fueling and tuning. Going from stock turbo to 8374 will feel a little laggy, but so will pretty much any turbo capable of making 600whp+. Just the nature of the beast.
 

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Discussion Starter #83
I wouldn't consider an 8374 laggy. The turbo rips above 4K rpm, 4.2k rpm on some setups. Really depends on fueling and tuning. Going from stock turbo to 8374 will feel a little laggy, but so will pretty much any turbo capable of making 600whp+. Just the nature of the beast.
Yes I agree with you, all I was saying is that I don't have any power until like 5000 rpm. There is no way I'd race anyone below that, I make peak tq @ 5500 so that's when I'd really prefer to start. I do understand that it's a 700whp + turbo so I realize what I got myself into but I'm just saying at 4000 rpm I have no real power lol enough to get around town and all tho but it doesn't "rip" until at least 5k
 

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Yes I agree with you, all I was saying is that I don't have any power until like 5000 rpm. There is no way I'd race anyone below that, I make peak tq @ 5500 so that's when I'd really prefer to start. I do understand that it's a 700whp + turbo so I realize what I got myself into but I'm just saying at 4000 rpm I have no real power lol enough to get around town and all tho but it doesn't "rip" until at least 5k
I got the 8374 kit from driven FAB. I'll let you know about fitment once I get to the turbo install. The manifold was tight but it got in there ok.

I went with Driven Fab as they make a 3.5" down pipe which I am told will help it spool a little quicker. I am expecting full boost by 4500rpm but after reading your post I don't know.

If I don't like it I can always get a 7670 and slap it on there if I am not happy with the 8374.

I hope to have time to work on the car again later this week and get the clutch in there.
 

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Yes I agree with you, all I was saying is that I don't have any power until like 5000 rpm. There is no way I'd race anyone below that, I make peak tq @ 5500 so that's when I'd really prefer to start. I do understand that it's a 700whp + turbo so I realize what I got myself into but I'm just saying at 4000 rpm I have no real power lol enough to get around town and all tho but it doesn't "rip" until at least 5k

Are you on E85 and do you have cams?

Look at both charts down below. Check out when both setups achieve 300wtq. One is bolt on stock turbo tuned and the other is an 8374 setup. The lower in the rpm band that you can achieve that kind of wtq then the better the car feels as a daily or street car.

https://www.evoxforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=23049&stc=1&d=1305597761

http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r340/clinton112583/770dyno_zpsf093fab6.jpg
 

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I got the 8374 kit from driven FAB. I'll let you know about fitment once I get to the turbo install. The manifold was tight but it got in there ok.

I went with Driven Fab as they make a 3.5" down pipe which I am told will help it spool a little quicker. I am expecting full boost by 4500rpm but after reading your post I don't know.

If I don't like it I can always get a 7670 and slap it on there if I am not happy with the 8374.

I hope to have time to work on the car again later this week and get the clutch in there.
The 7670 was already ruled as a pointless turbo as it spool close to the 8374 but lacked the top end punch. There's a reason why there are a lot of 8374 setup as oppose to the 7670.
 

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Discussion Starter #87 (Edited)
Are you on E85 and do you have cams?

Look at both charts down below. Check out when both setups achieve 300wtq. One is bolt on stock turbo tuned and the other is an 8374 setup. The lower in the rpm band that you can achieve that kind of wtq then the better the car feels as a daily or street car.

https://www.evoxforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=23049&stc=1&d=1305597761

http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r340/clinton112583/770dyno_zpsf093fab6.jpg
Is that "BlackE's" graph cause I think he just had something special going on lol. I'm on e85 (65% according to my flexfuel sensor) and I have GSC 2 cams and MAP titanium springs and retainers. My engine is fully built, darton sleeved running on twin walboro 450's & ID700x injectors. I will be adding a radium fuel rail and regulator and 4 bar map sensor to turn up the boost to hit 700whp and I'm capping it at that I think.

I'm just being honest with how my car drives, this is my personal experience. Like I said, I've never owned a big turbo car before and I expected a higher boost threshold but I was hopping anywhere from 4200-4500 just as DJ is expecting and from the seat of my pants I haven't felt that so far. We will know once we have a dyno graph tho and like I said I never got the final kill tune, I was on a conservative tune until my parts came in but my motor went between that time

PS: I also haven't driven my car in over 2 months now so I can't even go out for a drive to revisit this topic
 

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Discussion Starter #89
Any updates?

I finally had a chance to get the clutch installed, now it's time for the turbo install.
So far not much has happened yet :/

He had the car on the lift one day and said he was going to get the motor out by the end of the day but all he did so far was drain the oil and then the next day my car was off the lift and another car was on it lol. He told me he sent the crank to the machine shop to be balanced and polished, I called them and they said it's done so I sent him a text Saturday to let him know. Since he's my next door neighbor I've been going over there multiple times a week and I'll be over there today probably after work. Currently he has no employees so it's just him and he's bitten off more than he can chew. I'm not sure how he thinks because I think this is pretty insane. It's hard for me cause he's a nice guy to be around and friendly and you can stay and talk for a while but I just want my car back... He's been paid in full since March... A very large amount. Then the motor broke and you'd think it would be his top priority but it's been 3.5 months now (from June 24th) and he hasn't even opened the motor. I'm verrrry upset and I tell him but I never go off on him. Anyways now I'm just talking about personal problems not car problems lol.
 

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So far not much has happened yet :/

He had the car on the lift one day and said he was going to get the motor out by the end of the day but all he did so far was drain the oil and then the next day my car was off the lift and another car was on it lol. He told me he sent the crank to the machine shop to be balanced and polished, I called them and they said it's done so I sent him a text Saturday to let him know. Since he's my next door neighbor I've been going over there multiple times a week and I'll be over there today probably after work. Currently he has no employees so it's just him and he's bitten off more than he can chew. I'm not sure how he thinks because I think this is pretty insane. It's hard for me cause he's a nice guy to be around and friendly and you can stay and talk for a while but I just want my car back... He's been paid in full since March... A very large amount. Then the motor broke and you'd think it would be his top priority but it's been 3.5 months now (from June 24th) and he hasn't even opened the motor. I'm verrrry upset and I tell him but I never go off on him. Anyways now I'm just talking about personal problems not car problems lol.
Ya that's not right, even if he is your neighbor he is taking advantage of you being nice.

You may have to talk to him and make him make you top priority.
 

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Discussion Starter #91 (Edited)
mannyevox

Ya that's not right, even if he is your neighbor he is taking advantage of you being nice.

You may have to talk to him and make him make you top priority.
Yeah I already have told him multiple times. He always gives me a few excuses, which sometimes are true but still excuses. Then he tells me about all the cars in his shop and how much work he has. Then he'll say that i'll be next week. A week goes by, I text him. Before you know it a month goes by and still nothing and time keeps going by. None of it makes sense to me cause my dad is a great business man so if one of our customers has a faulty part or even a small problem that was due to our fault, they are our top priority. We have plenty of other work but fixing the wrong for our customers always comes first.

Anyways I have changed my plan slightly in order to get my car out faster. My car made 604whp /454tq @ 32psi on his MD, then it was having problems with fuel so we couldn't go any higher safely. So since 5 months ago the plan was to buy and install an upgraded fuel rail, regulator, 4 bar MAF sensor, lines to the dual fuel pump and then we could shoot for 700whp.

Now after talking with him he agreed he could get the car out faster if we waited to do that another time (maybe Spring). Even though those mods shouldn't take too much time to install, with the way things have always been I bet it would add a couple weeks to getting it back and it's almost winter now so I want to drive my car a little before then.

There is one part I am going to buy today. Someone on the EvoM forum suggested it to me a while back. The Full Race - Turbo Speed Gauge TSG-1. Since the motor will be out this would be the perfect time to install this sensor and gauge so he can push the turbo hard without over spinning. That's the only thing I'm adding to his job. Should of bought it from the beginning.
 

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Discussion Starter #93
There is your problem right there. He no longer has any incentive to finish the job. He is already payed.
I definitely understand that reasoning but even when my car was being built and he wasn't paid it took just as long, a whole 9 months.
 

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Yeah I already have told him multiple times. He always gives me a few excuses, which sometimes are true but still excuses. Then he tells me about all the cars in his shop and how much work he has. Then he'll say that i'll be next week. A week goes by, I text him. Before you know it a month goes by and still nothing and time keeps going by. None of it makes sense to me cause my dad is a great business man so if one of our customers has a faulty part or even a small problem that was due to our fault, they are our top priority. We have plenty of other work but fixing the wrong for our customers always comes first.
Yeah, this sucks dude. That's the risk you take when you have friends or neighbors work on your stuff. Not just cars either. Just get the car running with the fixed parts, and get an etune from one of the reputable shops. Take it to another local shop for any work in the future.
 

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sorry about your luck man. still waiting on your car?

i'm getting a 7670 installed today, i have a built 2.0 block (no sleeves). i'll get some butt dyno impressions as soon as I get a proper tune on it so that we can compare spool times for those following along. i was debating on a 7670/8374 but ultimately went with the 7670 for faster spool as i dont plan on going over 550 whp or so
 

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Discussion Starter #96
sorry about your luck man. still waiting on your car?

i'm getting a 7670 installed today, i have a built 2.0 block (no sleeves). i'll get some butt dyno impressions as soon as I get a proper tune on it so that we can compare spool times for those following along. i was debating on a 7670/8374 but ultimately went with the 7670 for faster spool as i dont plan on going over 550 whp or so
Nice man! I would love to see how your build turns out. My car is still not done lol. But there has been some progress at least. The engine is done and ready to be put back in. He took so many vaca days the past 2 weeks it was crazy... Idk how he can take off 3-4 days 2 weeks in a row when he is that far behind even if it's around the holidays but it is what it is. Lmk how the 7670 turns out!
 

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Nice man! I would love to see how your build turns out. My car is still not done lol. But there has been some progress at least. The engine is done and ready to be put back in. He took so many vaca days the past 2 weeks it was crazy... Idk how he can take off 3-4 days 2 weeks in a row when he is that far behind even if it's around the holidays but it is what it is. Lmk how the 7670 turns out!
progress is better than no progress :) hope it all works out for you when you get it back this time

i'm getting my car back tomorrow or Tuesday, the turbo is in they just need to finish buttoning up a couple of things with the heat shields, but were closed thurs/fri for Thanksgiving

should have the tune dialed in over the couple of weeks, will post updates as they come
 

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Discussion Starter #98
progress is better than no progress :) hope it all works out for you when you get it back this time

i'm getting my car back tomorrow or Tuesday, the turbo is in they just need to finish buttoning up a couple of things with the heat shields, but were closed thurs/fri for Thanksgiving

should have the tune dialed in over the couple of weeks, will post updates as they come
Did you get your car back yet? My tuner says it'll be done in "a couple days"
 

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Discussion Starter #99
Hello to everyone, if anybody is still following. I got my car back Friday night. We couldn't tune past 30psi because I need the 4 bar sensor so he tuned me @ 29psi and he said it made 580whp on his MD. He never showed me a picture or a graph unfortunately and I was so excited I didn't even ask lol. Also at some point he did hit 32psi on the dyno and he said the this turbo really comes alive above 30psi. He said it made 630whp at 32psi! But even though he tuned me at the limit of the sensor I have (29psi), on the street I kept over boosting and hitting 30, 31 or 32psi so I got fuel cut every time since he tuned it to cut the fuel if it hits over 30psi. He turned my boost down a few clicks and I don't usually get a fuel cut anymore now. So I think I'm probably around 26-28psi and probably making 550whp but I don't know for sure.

I did some pulls and I wasn't too impressed with the low end tq feel in 3rd gear, I wanted that kick but instead was very gradual and once you got to 6k rpm it was pulling hard. Then 2 days later I did a pull in 2nd gear and wow, it had a nice punch and felt pretty fast, much better! (no brake boosting in any of these pulls) He told me my tq was around 380... which was weird because last time in June 2019 my car made 604whp/454qt @ 32psi so I'm not sure why it's so low. The only mods that have changed is he installed a turbine shaft speed sensor/gauge and I made a custom dual exhaust, so it is probably flow a little bit better than my old exhaust.

Some problems we have is he can't figure out why my turbo is falling off higher in the rev range, he thinks it has to do with the IWG because he said I should be able to hold peak boost to redline but instead it's tapering off. The car is still making more power up top but he's making the engine do the work since by 7500 rpm the turbo dropped 4psi. There's a few rich spots in my tune that he was working on for a while, he has it tuned hald on MAF / half on Speed Density and he was have a hard time dialing everything in, but so far the car runs and idles pretty good. So everything is still not 100% finished but I'm glad to have the car for now.

Anyways how is everyone else's cars doing? Dj ecplise and Htothe?
 

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Hello to everyone, if anybody is still following. I got my car back Friday night. We couldn't tune past 30psi because I need the 4 bar sensor so he tuned me @ 29psi and he said it made 580whp on his MD. He never showed me a picture or a graph unfortunately and I was so excited I didn't even ask lol. Also at some point he did hit 32psi on the dyno and he said the this turbo really comes alive above 30psi. He said it made 630whp at 32psi! But even though he tuned me at the limit of the sensor I have (29psi), on the street I kept over boosting and hitting 30, 31 or 32psi so I got fuel cut every time since he tuned it to cut the fuel if it hits over 30psi. He turned my boost down a few clicks and I don't usually get a fuel cut anymore now. So I think I'm probably around 26-28psi and probably making 550whp but I don't know for sure.

I did some pulls and I wasn't too impressed with the low end tq feel in 3rd gear, I wanted that kick but instead was very gradual and once you got to 6k rpm it was pulling hard. Then 2 days later I did a pull in 2nd gear and wow, it had a nice punch and felt pretty fast, much better! (no brake boosting in any of these pulls) He told me my tq was around 380... which was weird because last time in June 2019 my car made 604whp/454qt @ 32psi so I'm not sure why it's so low. The only mods that have changed is he installed a turbine shaft speed sensor/gauge and I made a custom dual exhaust, so it is probably flow a little bit better than my old exhaust.

Some problems we have is he can't figure out why my turbo is falling off higher in the rev range, he thinks it has to do with the IWG because he said I should be able to hold peak boost to redline but instead it's tapering off. The car is still making more power up top but he's making the engine do the work since by 7500 rpm the turbo dropped 4psi. There's a few rich spots in my tune that he was working on for a while, he has it tuned hald on MAF / half on Speed Density and he was have a hard time dialing everything in, but so far the car runs and idles pretty good. So everything is still not 100% finished but I'm glad to have the car for now.

Anyways how is everyone else's cars doing? Dj ecplise and Htothe?
It's great to hear you finally got the car back but it still sounds like it is not tuned properly. And what shop does not give you a dyno graph of the run. Personally I would want to be there when the car is being dyno'd so I know the numbers are real.

I forget, are you on pump gas, what injectors?

580 on a MD is pretty good, I am not sure why the torque would be lower. The boost creep sucks. The turbo itself should not fall off at all in any rev range. Something doesn't seem right. Or you could take it to the 1/4 mile and see what trap speeds you are running. Jump on the weigh station and with trap seed and weight you can get a pretty accurate idea of true HP.

Do you have another shop that can tune it, or maybe try an e tune like I am doing?

I need to get motivation and time to work on the car again. I have the tranny and turbo in, started it up with a home depot intake just to shift gears while on jack stands to see if the clutch is working properly. I now have to install the fuel pump and injectors. The I can install the first tune and get this thing tuned. It is snowy and the roads are full of salt. I probably won't take it out until the salt is washed away.
 
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