[freethriftyz]

Hey guys,

Did some searching and I found that Wiseco 1400HD pistons seem very tough as far as pistons go, and didn't carry a ridiculous price tag.

My question is, being that I don't know jack about internals, is it okay to put forged pistons on 4B11 that I have no intention of ever putting a bigger turbo on or doing a stroker kit with?

I did a WOT run earlier and got my fast SES tephra-light...it's cold I know, probably phantom knock from my loud setup I know, maybe overboosted from sudden temp change...but I'm just so in love with this machine as it is that I want to try and make it last for ever. Building the block seems like the most logical thing to do...

So do people put rods and pistons on otherwise stock blocks? I'm guessing I'd need a retune? I just want my car to have the same bolt-ons and tune as now, but have no fear of detonation and an eventual VTA engine block. Stuff that can handle the demands of a car that has bolt-ons only and tuned to 27psi. Would there be anything else I could do?

I was thinking an intercooler to lower temp charges...but besides doing a retune or the IC, I see a built motor as the only option. I'm not looking for more power, just want stock engine/turbo with my current setup to last...well...forever.

So is this just something people don't do, or is it a realistic, good idea- money not being an issue. Open to any idea's/recommendations on how to make my block as bulletproof as the presidents limo.

Thanks!

 

[pistolpete69916]

I say you keep the motor completely stock if youre dedicated to keeping stock turbo

Im at 350whp for 50k miles at 340whp with zero issues. Plenty of room too.

 

[freethriftyz]

Do you ever see ses-light knock flashes though? They are rare, but they are there for me. And any is too much. Even if it's phantom, I really want the peace of mind to know it ain't gonna blow.

So stock internals are the best? I thought the 4B11's were kinda weak. Probably heard wrong though.

Maybe another retune with lower boost. It's been between 27-31psi since the second week I've had it lol. Currently at 27 with beautiful afr's...but I want that security...

 

[freethriftyz]

I've read over 400 lbs/tq on a dynojet, and almost 300 on the heartbreaker mustang dyno at Kozmic...

I was thinking instead of building the block, to maybe ditch the stock downpipe in order to reduce any potential cylinder pressure? Aftermarket manifold too...

Or cams? That seems like too much money though...

 

[anasyakoub]

stock turbo = stock block , and it will last for long time
bigger turbo = how much big ? if you are going more the 400 lbs/tq you need to build the engine ,
for the cams you do not need it on stock turbo

so if you want to build, build it one time with bigger turbo, cams and internals
or keep it stock and enjoy your ~360 whp car

 

[mac11wildcat]

lots of people have built internals without a sleeved block. hell, UT is making 600 without sleeves. Has anyone done it to not make more power? Dont know. Forged internals are nothing but a good idea. Do you need them? Probably not. Are they better suited for the stresses our engines see and will give you piece of mind? Yes.

Moral of the story, our internals are the weak link, not the block or anything else.

 

[thewraith]

Why not save the up front cost of fixing something that isn't "broke"? If it does break, then you can go all out on it and it's not the second time you've paid for it. And excuse my saying so if I'm wrong- but looking at other threads, built engines on this platform don't last too long...

Built thread for reference: http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56293

I do realize that what you want may not be considered a "built" motor.

 

[mac11wildcat]

Why not save the up front cost of fixing something that isn't "broke"? If it does break, then you can go all out on it and it's not the second time you've paid for it. And excuse my saying so if I'm wrong- but looking at other threads, built engines on this platform don't last too long...

With the power OP is talking about a piston or rod company would have a law suit on their hands if they broke. Forged internals are the primary reason our block has a torque restriction. I dont think ive heard of the actual physical block failing on its own; its always hit by a piston or rod.

Blocks dont last long because people push them too far. a forged internal built engine should last nearly forever within its power envelope and when assembled correctly.

 

[EvoXNate]

This logic is certainly better than throwing everything you got at the stock block until it explodes.

 

[mac11wildcat]

This logic is certainly better than throwing everything you got at the stock block until it explodes.

:+1:

 

[freethriftyz]

Thanks for the responses guys. I know it's a weird mod, but I'm just gonna get the pistons/rods and downpipe. Then I can add a turbo in a couple years if I want without worrying about stressing the internals too much. But more importantly, just enjoy my car now.

 

[mac11wildcat]

Thanks for the responses guys. I know it's a weird mod, but I'm just gonna get the pistons/rods and downpipe. Then I can add a turbo in a couple years if I want without worrying about stressing the internals too much. But more importantly, just enjoy my car now.

Not weird at all. Its a great way to approach it. It may be a little early for those (as far as power goes) but never too early for piece of mind.

 

[HappyMint]

Upgrading internals and keeping stock turbo for the intent of reliability is an absolutely horrible idea (no offense intended).

There is absolutely no built block that is going to be more reliable than the stock block. I promise you, mitsu put a LOT more money and testing into the stock block than anyone has ever done with a 4b11 aftermarket block.

If you're going to be pushing power levels that may bend rods that's one thing, but if you aren't, and your goal is reliability, for the love of god don't touch it. Make sure you got a good tune and be happy.

Knock light isn't something you should be worried about if it comes on occasionally. Ask your tuner, or look yourself, as to how your knock light is configured (what is the minimum load and how many counts of knock before it flashes slow/fast).

Do you really want to wait literally 20 minutes or more every time you start your car before you should drive it because you upgraded internals for absolutely no gain and a lot of cost (upgraded internals expand more and require more time to warm up - otherwise you'll get piston slap)? There is a lot more at play here than you realize.

On that note, if your stock turbo is pushing 400wtq then get your boost dropped, the solution is NOT to build the engine.

 

[hotstix]

always better to "overbuild" *IF* youre gonna go under the knife.

but like others have said. Dont build it unless you have to. The highest mileage motors on here are still oem. Just keep the torque around 370 and youll be fine

 

[Murlo26]

Stock motor ftw, especially on your setup.

Focus on figuring out why its knocking, maybe fueling issue (plenty of people here have them).

Otherwise get a retune or just have Kozmic check your tune. A tune can have issues related to weather etc so maybe its just this time of the year, maybe its bad gas etc etc.

I would way rather spend money/time figuring out why a stock turbo car is knocking than building the motor and opening that can of worms.

 

[mac11wildcat]

ill go with the "can of worms" idea, but to say that he's garaunteed piston slap is a little hasty. Thats going to depend on so many things that arent even in the realm of consideration yet. I doubt OP is going to go out into his garage, tear his engine out, break it down, throw some pistons in, and go. Piston material and power goals are just a couple considerations that are going to dictate that.

considering he's a guy worried about reliability and not power, im willing to bet waiting 5 minutes on cold mornings (where do you live OP?) isnt a huge problem. i doubt he's tearing out of his driveway chasing ricers at WOT.

sorry for the sarcasm...i needed that for some reason...

 

[HappyMint]

Well, you can be sarcastic all you want, I'm just trying to offer sound advice since chances are if he builds his engine and drops all that money on labor and parts, he's probably going to regret it. I've seen it happen numerous times, the car isn't the same after you build it.

OP, perhaps it's in your best interest to ask people who have already been through a motor build if they would do it if they were in your situation, but I'm willing to bet you'll get an overwhelming no. You already know what Hotstix and Murlo think, both of which had built engines.

Just my 0.02.

 

[Murlo26]

Well, you can be sarcastic all you want, I'm just trying to offer sound advice since chances are if he builds his engine and drops all that money on labor and parts, he's probably going to regret it. I've seen it happen numerous times, the car isn't the same after you build it.

OP, perhaps it's in your best interest to ask people who have already been through a motor build if they would do it if they were in your situation, but I'm willing to bet you'll get an overwhelming no. You already know what Hotstix and Murlo think, both of which had built engines.

Just my 0.02.

There is nothing wrong with building a motor if you need it for your power goals, there is just no reason to build it for a stock turbo setup. It's leagues easier to keep the stock one working correctly, built motors aren't impossible to get right or anything just a good bit of work to keep them up to par.

 

[HappyMint]

There is nothing wrong with building a motor if you need it for your power goals, there is just no reason to build it for a stock turbo setup. It's leagues easier to keep the stock one working correctly, built motors aren't impossible to get right or anything just a good bit of work to keep them up to par.

Agreed. I didn't say it in that post, but I said it in the previous one, if you don't plan on entering rod-bending territory I don't see the point in building.

 

[nonschlont]

Upgrading internals and keeping stock turbo for the intent of reliability is an absolutely horrible idea (no offense intended).

There is absolutely no built block that is going to be more reliable than the stock block. I promise you, mitsu put a LOT more money and testing into the stock block than anyone has ever done with a 4b11 aftermarket block.

If you're going to be pushing power levels that may bend rods that's one thing, but if you aren't, and your goal is reliability, for the love of god don't touch it. Make sure you got a good tune and be happy.

Knock light isn't something you should be worried about if it comes on occasionally. Ask your tuner, or look yourself, as to how your knock light is configured (what is the minimum load and how many counts of knock before it flashes slow/fast).

Do you really want to wait literally 20 minutes or more every time you start your car before you should drive it because you upgraded internals for absolutely no gain and a lot of cost (upgraded internals expand more and require more time to warm up - otherwise you'll get piston slap)? There is a lot more at play here than you realize.

On that note, if your stock turbo is pushing 400wtq then get your boost dropped, the solution is NOT to build the engine.

I agree 100% on this ^