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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm going to be doing a bb fp black, built 2.0, dodson motorsport clutch, 2010 SE build. I was looking at the ams 750r kit, but I'm just not happy with spool from the graphs I'm looking at.

Anyway, the car will be tuned on 93 pump with water/meth. I want a decent spooling 500whp sst and think I've picked the right parts.

I'll probably be doing a AMS stage 1 2 liter with tmp cams, but do you guys think I should sleeve the motor or not? I don't ever see this car going beyond 550whp and it will always be a high rpm low torque motor.

Any input would be appreciated.
 

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I built a 2.0 with the best parts i could find only to have #4 cylinder streach at the top and wreck the whole build. 585 whp dynojet. I would sleeve it and stay a 2.0 but thats just my opinion. Many people have made alot of power on the stock sleeves but not many have put alot of miles on the motor at that power level. Dyno queens such as ets dont count they have virtually no miles on the car at big power levels.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
X-Factor, the closest e85 around here is almost thirty miles away.

3dman1, that's good info man.
 

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Sleeve it, and can the meth idea. A quick search will find several blown motors b/c of meth. You want 500whp, you can do that w/ a black on 93 without the extra complication and failure point of the methanol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The reason for the meth, albeit a lower ratio of meth than 50/50, is the fp black and the ams 9.5:1 compression ratio. From everything I see, the black likes higher pressure ratios and really starts to make power in the 30psi range. I want to make 500 on a mustang dyno, so the meth will probably be needed to keep knock under control with the boost I plan on running. I figure on 93, with a black at 27psi I should be between 450-480 on a mustang dyno. With the meth I can keep the black in the fat spot in the map and might break 500 on a mustang dyno.

Keep in mind, this is an SST so I'm going to loose a small amount compared to a manual.

I prefer blue washer fluid. It's has typically less methanol, so it's not as volatile as a 50/50 mix but you still get that great cooling effect for controlling knock.

Sounds like a sleeved motor is in my future....

Or is this a flawed idea?
 

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not a fan of meth, too iffy for the bump in power and lower knock.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Okay, I might be scratching the meth/black combo then. What about the CBRD 33r? I think I could probably get to 500 on a mustang dyno at 27psi with this turbo. What do you guys think?
 

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Personally if I were you I wouldn't be worrying about any of this until the MR tranny gets sorted out so it can hold torque. Your talking about building a set up with a ton of bottom end power but what all have you done for the tranny so far?

As far as the Black vs the AMS 750R goes spool is right there together really. The 750R just has more top end and doesn't fall off like the Black due to the stock frame turbine housing. So I guess my question to you would be A) Whats the purpose of the car? Street beast - Drag - Auto X - or Track? B) Whats your overall budget for the whole build? C) What mods do you currently have?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Personally if I were you I wouldn't be worrying about any of this until the MR tranny gets sorted out so it can hold torque. Your talking about building a set up with a ton of bottom end power but what all have you done for the tranny so far?

As far as the Black vs the AMS 750R goes spool is right there together really. The 750R just has more top end and doesn't fall off like the Black due to the stock frame turbine housing. So I guess my question to you would be A) Whats the purpose of the car? Street beast - Drag - Auto X - or Track? B) Whats your overall budget for the whole build? C) What mods do you currently have?
Please see post one regarding transmission.

I also don't plan on building a motor with a ton of bottom end power. I do want decent spool, but the plan is a factory displacement and lots of rpm's. Dodson rates the clubman kit at "500lb", so I'm going to assume that's a flywheel rating. Given that, and throwing in about a 20% drivetrain loss with the sst, that should be a solid 400lb/ft at the wheels. Which is plenty for a 500whp, high rpm goal.

I plan on working with what we have now with the SST. Once the TCU can be flashed, I believe clutch holding capacity at high torque loads will be a nonissue with these clutch packs.

I want the car to just be a "streat beast". I have 24,355 dollars in my savings, of which I plan on spending 18,000 toward the build. My current mods are, invidia downpipe/test pipe, drop in air filter and I'm self tuned.

Thanks for the info regarding the black/750r. Do you think the 750r at 27psi will make as much power as a black at 30psi?

Step one for me is clutch packs.
 

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The reason for the meth, albeit a lower ratio of meth than 50/50, is the fp black and the ams 9.5:1 compression ratio. From everything I see, the black likes higher pressure ratios and really starts to make power in the 30psi range. I want to make 500 on a mustang dyno, so the meth will probably be needed to keep knock under control with the boost I plan on running. I figure on 93, with a black at 27psi I should be between 450-480 on a mustang dyno. With the meth I can keep the black in the fat spot in the map and might break 500 on a mustang dyno.

Keep in mind, this is an SST so I'm going to loose a small amount compared to a manual.

I prefer blue washer fluid. It's has typically less methanol, so it's not as volatile as a 50/50 mix but you still get that great cooling effect for controlling knock.

Sounds like a sleeved motor is in my future....

Or is this a flawed idea?
I know no one will be able to convince you otherwise, but your goals are too high and it's going to end up costing you a fortune and a lot of headache and heartache. Find a different platform if you're looking for 500whp on a mustang.
 

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I am not a fan of sleeves.
Large argumentative reasons?...no.

I just believe there has to be a more natural path to sustainable power.

Maybe you have to go sleeveless until that is found.
 

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I have yet to find a real reason to sleeving the motor besides going with larger displacement. No evidence has proven really otherwise.
 

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I am not a fan of sleeves.
Large argumentative reasons?...no.

I just believe there has to be a more natural path to sustainable power.

Maybe you have to go sleeveless until that is found.
If I were staying 2.0 I wouldn't sleeve it. I want to go 2.2 so I will be sleeving my block.
 

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If I were staying 2.0 I wouldn't sleeve it. I want to go 2.2 so I will be sleeving my block.
Fair enough.
That is not the same as saying you need to sleeve your motor if you want a stroker motor or 2.2L.

Stephen
 

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I have yet to find a real reason to sleeving the motor besides going with larger displacement. No evidence has proven really otherwise.
I can provide all the proof needed. The #4 stock sleeve has zero bracing for 180 degrees. All other cylinders are braced in 90 degree increments. The top of #4 moved .008 into this area without bracing on my build at between 530 and 580 whp dyno jet. Sleeving is the best option for builds in the 500 + whp range. I am installing a 2.3 non sleeved block now that will be kept under 500 whp due to the stock sleeves. I will be sleeving another block and keeping it around for the day that I decide to go for big power. I guarantee in the future people building these 4b11 motors will fallow the lead of the open deck Honda world and sleeving will become the norm on any big power build. It really is the smartest way to do it it gives peace of mind.
 
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