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Do you leave your car in gear when you park it?
I've read that leaving it in gear puts load on the engine and the chain which could cause it to stretch.
Huh? Totally unrelated to anything/everything.

"In gear" connects the driveline (wheels) to the crankshaft of the engine. That's all it does.
 
Huh? Totally unrelated to anything/everything.

"In gear" connects the driveline (wheels) to the crankshaft of the engine. That's all it does.
Which in turn puts load on the crankshaft, which then puts load on the rest of the components, timing chain included. The weight of the vehicle is being transferred through the drivetrain, which has a consistent load on the engine, while parked on a hill.

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So yeah, totally related to anything/everything.
 
So exactly how is that alleged load any different than the engine just sitting there all by itself - or even while it's running? It's totally unrelated to any possible load on the crank. Totally. Unrelated.

BTW - if you set the parking brake, there is no load on the crank at all. While there is ALWAYS some valve spring load on the cam chain, stopped, running or parked. No?

Are you attempting to say that at some point all the valve spring loads go away?? Please 'splain how.

As I stated above, totally unrelated.
 
So exactly how is that alleged load any different than the engine just sitting there all by itself - or even while it's running? It's totally unrelated to any possible load on the crank. Totally. Unrelated.

BTW - if you set the parking brake, there is no load on the crank at all. While there is ALWAYS some valve spring load on the cam chain, stopped, running or parked. No?

Are you attempting to say that at some point all the valve spring loads go away?? Please 'splain how.

As I stated above, totally unrelated.
My point is, putting the car in gear as an "added" parking brake, is certainly putting at least a little extra load on the engine. Opposed to it sitting there freely with no load on it from the weight of the car being transferred through the drivetrain to the engine. Unless you pull the parking brake up to full lock, then put it in gear, then maybe it reduces it, but I've never parked any manual transmission cars in gear. Its pointless.

Not all valve spring load will ever be gone as long as the engine is 100% assembled, I'm just saying you can definitely reduce the load by not keeping your car in gear while parked, mainly on a hill.
 
I came across this article: http://www.marinediesels.info/2_stroke_engine_parts/Other_info/chain_stretch.htm

Lead me to think, if you logged Target vs Actual VVT angles, could it help to determine the magnitude of chain stretch present in the motor?
That's a tricky question. The P0012 code is usualy popped when the chain is past what Mitsubishi determined as acceptable stretch (~4mm). Much past this and you risk the slacked chain impacting the oil squirter.

The ECU determines stretch by extrapolating data from the positional relation of the cams and crank, read by each sensor respectively. If you consider that each tooth at the crank sprocket equals 3 degrees in timing (and skipping the teeth is what causes the timing error), I don't know if said magnitude could be determined by monitoring cam phase angle alone. I would think the Evo would become symptomatic if 2+ teeth were to be skipped, and that it would have to be more than 4mm strecth. In which case the P0012 code would already have popped.

On the other hand, there have been cases in which people have successfully resolved cam phase angle DTCs (P0011, P0014, P0016, P0017, etc.) by having the timing chain stretch learned value reset by the dealer. There was even a TSB listing this as a solution released in November 2008.

So while I'm not certain if the severity of chain stretch can be inferred by logging target vs actual vvt, I would not feel confident in using it as a reliable influence in the decision to replace the timing chain. Better safe than sorry, especially if you don't have the revised timing chain.

Also remember that when you replace the timing chain, you must replace the chain guides and it is a good idea to replace the tensioner and oil pump chain while your in there.

I know this probably did not answer your question, but at least I got to sound smart and use a bunch of $10 words. Hooray for me!!!
 
My point is, putting the car in gear as an "added" parking brake, is certainly putting at least a little extra load on the engine. Opposed to it sitting there freely with no load on it from the weight of the car being transferred through the drivetrain to the engine.
...
Not all valve spring load will ever be gone as long as the engine is 100% assembled, I'm just saying you can definitely reduce the load by not keeping your car in gear while parked, mainly on a hill.
If the car moves - a bunch - then there is some movement of the engine and resistance due to compression load. If there is no vehicle movement (in the case of a parked vehicle) , then there is no [additional] applied compression load. Cam chain "load" will remain the same regardless.

How is this engine "load" you speak of translated to a load on the cam chain? Are you saying you should NEVER use engine braking because there's load on the engine and it will damage the chain?

Compression "load" has absolutely nothing to do with cam chain "load". Cam chain load is no different than cam belt load.
 
In this matter, Mitsubishi recommends we perform maintenance action only if the appropriate code is thrown. But I read of instances of bad chain stretch without a thrown code or false codes when not stretched. I've had one local expert shop recommend I just add a visual inspection performed at 50K miles as part of PM. Oh well, seems like exploratory surgery is the way to go then.
 
I wouldn't rely on just codes. The code is just the "no shit its time to change now light bulb". A lot is said for how the car performs. I noticed it when my exhaust sounded funny compared to normal, then one time I shut the car off, "something" didn't sound right. I should have looked then for the chain, but I was traveling for work in the Evo so I didn't have the time, nor the tools. Unfortunately I had to wait until the code popped before I could do anything.

I will say this officially since I have done the chain myself, and the 60K service 2 weeks later. If you don't have the revised chain on your car right now. I would go ahead and buy the chain, and either follow this how to and do it yourself, or take it to a trained professional immediately. There is no sense in waiting until "the shit hits the fan".
 
Thanks for sharing your impressions on how the car behaved prior to the CEL. This is good data. What bugs me is that the code (sometimes lack thereof) comes really late, pretty much at the point where your car has one foot in the grave. At least with timing belt, manufacturers just have people change it at specified interval, regardless of overt symptoms.

Again, it really would help alot to devise a means of quantitatively tracking the stretch. Sorry to sound like a broken record, but we know that data is somewhere in the ECU (hence the code). It would be a great call to action for the smarties to help unearth it unearth it and perform a public service, especially since there are prob plenty of high mile Evos running on edge. I would totally pay for this kind of piece of mind, way cheaper than dealing with bent valves and smashed pistons.
 
Perhaps add a preventive maintenance item and just replace the chains between 50K and 60K miles.

The ECU stored chain stretch value can be read and written with a MUT3. I will verify that the value is NOT overwritten when flashing with ECUFlash.
 
Thanks for the write up. I will be using this in the near future. I've been getting the dreaded P0012 code & have verified that my chain is NOT stretched. I'm almost @ 80K miles so I guess I should just change the chain(s). (2008 GSR with original chain).
 
Timing chain replacement

I wish I was brave enough to do this myself just not confident to have ago knowing my luck I would stuff it up and cost as shit load more to fix :+1:

Gazza
 
I probably would do this but I don't have the nuts! Wish I had some of the evo team like Cali does here in hot ass az to help. I got plenty o beer to supply! :dancebanana:
 
There's several good EVO shops in the greater PHX area.

It's a medium-difficulty job with a "major cost" factor if something goes bad. Don't be afraid to pay someone else to do it.
 
Nice writeup man very helpful. Is it not necessary to lock the cams when removing the tensioner and chain? It is in fact an interference motor right? Just curious if there is risk there in the event a cam rolled off valve opening. Also is there a maintenance interval on the chain? Thanks man.
 
Discussion starter · #40 ·
Nice writeup man very helpful.
Thank you.

Is it not necessary to lock the cams when removing the tensioner and chain?
I don't remember seeing it in the service manual.

It is in fact an interference motor right? Just curious if there is risk there in the event a cam rolled off valve opening.
Yes it is. Unsure about it rolling off. Ours didnt :)

Also is there a maintenance interval on the chain? Thanks man.
I don't think there's a specified interval, but if you have older style that stretches, just replace it when able. Also, if you have to motor open for whatever reason (new build, etc), it won't hurt to just throw a new one in.

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