I'm a HUGE fan of KISS (keep it simple stupid). #5 gets my vote because it closely resembles my setup. Great response on the street and it is fun as hell doing autoX as well as drag.

 

You would need a lot of power in the straight away to catch up with a GTR! However, a moderate size upgrade turbo and awesome suspension (and tuning) and combine that with some advan AD08, you should be able to take them on the track. Just like that edmunds Evo X.

I will have to side with scheides, keep it simple and go with number 5.

 

on 91 the 5857 will probably do about 450 dyno jet hp at 25 psi. The bbx will probably come close to that peak number maybe a little less but the 5857 doesnt spool until 4700 rpms where the bbx will be spooled around 4k maybe earlier. If you ask around about precision turbos you will hear that the 5857 has good intentions but it falls short when compared to the other t3 turbos out there. The 5857 has been somewhat of a dud because it comes with a lot of lag and doesnt make up for it up top when compared to some other t3's. If you go t3 style do yourself a favor and get the 6262 or hta35r. Anything smaller and you are better off with bbx or fp balck.

Also- if peak power on 91 pump is what your after go big turbo. A bigger turbo blows cooler air than the stocker and the big turbos make less peak torque than a stocker. This is why you can make 500 dyno jet hp with a big turbo on 91 and not blow your chit.

 

If you ask around about precision turbos you will hear that the 5857 has good intentions but it falls short when compared to the other t3 turbos out there. The 5857 has been somewhat of a dud because it comes with a lot of lag and doesnt make up for it up top when compared to some other t3's. If you go t3 style do yourself a favor and get the 6262 or hta35r.

I'm glad I read this, I was also leaning towards the 5857 but if this statement is true I'm going with the 6262. If you have any graphs can you please post.

To the op, I'm in the same boat. I've narrowed it down to the AMS kit or the Shearer Fab hotside and peicing together the rest of the stuff. If you need to run a stock appearing turbo I'd go with a black.

 

MAP Tubular mani with an FP Black (I'm biased)

Now I know for a fact if you get a good list together of supporting mods and these 2 items and buy them all at once Chris @ MAP can beat anyone else's price easily.

 

+1!!! This will be the exact setup I am running soon. Although Im still on the stock motor. No 2.3 here.:godance:

 

I have a BBX but I'd side with Hollywood on this one. On a stock block you're actually better off with a larger turbo since they don't have the early tq spike. You'll also need a bigger turbo to make good power on 91oct...I'm running E85.

At 450+ whp there's not a whole lot at a typical track day that will have you at a motor disadvantage. It's pretty much just the gutted (light) vehicles that are going to be tough.

 

Big boy set ups the 6262 can't be beat, high power stock block with piss-tane the Black on a tubular is awesome.

 

Not even by an HTA3586? Hehe j/k, but people need to know there's more to T3's than PTE turbos! Blouch/CBRD make some too...

 

i would go with the FP red or black on the ported stock manifold. you should be able to get 450 whp with that, supporting mods, and good tuning

but maybe hollywood can take me away from the ported stock manifold when he does his test comparison.

 

I'd vote a black too unless you plan to build the motor.

 

Yes, waaay off-topic. This forum is probably the best at that though

Neato.

 

Here is a thread to help some of you reading this make a decision.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/drag-r...t/drag-racing/469182-top-20-fastest-quickest-stock-appearing-turbos-2010-a.html

Out of the 20 quickest and 20 fastest cars running stock frame turbos;
List is open to , FP White, FP Green, FP Red, FP BLACK, BBK Lite, BBK Full, MAP SST, Tomei Arms Powered Cars ONLY

All but 2 of the slots out of 40 are Forced Performance turbos and thats Red Green and Black. I'd say that is a pretty good indication of how well the design on the turbos are.

 

damn, didnt know that

 

If you're putting the money into a good FP Black setup, I think you're making a mistake if you don't just budget some cash for some sort of displacement increase. Going with a well build, sleeved, 2.2 setup doesn't lose you anything in terms of revs, but the gains are going to be significant in spool.

Everyone seems to be in a RUSH to finish shit; do it right, even if it takes a few more months to finish off. Unless you blow your motor, ala Murlo

 

What's funny is my car spools 1000rpm's faster than the Evo 8 with a black dynoed a week earlier at my shop who is also a 2.0L car.

Also looking at a few builds of 2.4L motors with blacks on EvoM, my car outspools them by a few hundred rpm's as well.

Honestly, I don't see a necessity to increase displacement with an FPblack, its nice but necessary, no way. 36psi at 4100rpm, you kidding me...this thing spools awesome. And I ran it out of steam at 8000rpms on the 2L, so if you increase displacement your powerband will fall on its face even earlier.

To tell you the truth, i think the 2.0L with nice mivec is perfect for the black with a raised redline...

Now if you go t3, then yes, more displacement for sure.

 

Murlo, I was looking at the dyno plots you posted on your car. The spool on your setup is fantastic. It doesn't look any different than a red to me. Which brings the following to mind:
1) if the red/black spool is almost the same, is there a reason to even have a red?
2) your street tune netted 461whp. Is this on pump gas, or E70? If it was on E70, wouldn't that allow the car to spool quicker? How much slower would it be on pump?
3) Your motor is built. Mine will NOT be. If I'm running pump, the general consensus is that I'm still safe?

Just to keep the conversation going, what do you guys think of CBRD's tial kit, 30RB, with .63 A/R? I don't know what type of turbo the 30RB is, actually.

 

The red spools a little faster sure, not too much though but I changed a lot of stuff on my setup since my fpred, so if I ran an FPred on my current setup the spool could be quite a bit better, hard to tell. The red is still a great turbo and torque will be much better on the low end with it.

Both tunes are on E70...E70/E85 supposedly spools turbo's quicker, locally I would agree as the local dyno plots show this, but some tuners don't seem to agree.

I am not the one to ask about being safe on a stock motor, lol. I would ask GST since it looks like they tuned you already. GST is a great shop, they should be able to answer all your questions.

 

Yeah, I fully intend on going back to GST for my re-tune. Bryan is the only one around here that really understands the SST well enough.

Bryan, if you're reading this, I would love to have you weigh in with your opinion on what I should do.

 

Here is a link to my graph. Tuned by Bryan @ GST also.
http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31408

 

Here is a link to my graph. Tuned by Bryan @ GST also.
http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31408

Ack! I can't decide... I THINK I want one thing, only to look at other builds and wonder if I should go a different route. Am I correct in assuming that the lower psi (25) and resultant lower torque is what enables you to run a large turbo with large whp on a stock engine? It would be really enlightening to go for a ride in your car to see how much 'lag' I'm willing to tolerate for whp...

 

larger turbo with lower psi will also push colder air than a smaller turbo trying to push the same volume of air

 

So a smaller turbo like a green or bbx-lite is potentially more 'risky' than a larger turbo... Thanks for all the input fellas. I'm still not sure what route I'm going to go with. I'm probably just going to sit back for now and wait for more results

 

Not necessarily, it is all about total torque you are applying, you can't just look at a millisecond torque spike where the numbers go really high like with the stock turbo. A big ass turbo will sustain that torque throughout the powerband so you have to take that into account.

Typically the bigger ones are safe because people do very conservative tunes with low torque throughout, but a flat torque curve. And on the conservative tune people hit the number they had in mind. Usually problems come from chasing numbers.

EDIT: So really it all depends on how you tune the car, if you go for the mad torque spike that quick jolt every time you step on it could be damaging, but its not necessarily worse than a large turbo with sustained large torque throughout.

I feel like this post sucks...I can't seem to say what I am thinking very well right now...f it.

 

A 400 wtq spike at low rpms is much worse than 350 wtq sustained. If something is designed to handle 350 wtq, it can handle that for a given time duration. Even a 400 wtq spike that seems to only last for a blink of an eye still registers as 400 wtq on the moving parts. Keep your tq below 350 and your engine will have a long life

 

Here is my input, since we offer a multitude of solutions depending on our clients needs...

The stock housing stuff will spool faster... quite simply. They are using assym twinscroll housings that work great....

As far as power, per PSI we have made more power on the Tial housing kit (regardless of turbo) than we have on our stock housing turbos at the expense of response.

All of our testing was done on the larger .82 A/R housings so we could see the worst spool up we would get.... we started with the 33RB and worked down to the 30RB... I didnt even put the 35RB on because the 33RB managed over 450whp on our dyno on pump with stock cams on 93 and AFR's in the 10's...

For most clients I think the stock housing setups will do whatever you need on your stock block (ours or FP's products are both nice solutions)...

If you plan to rev over 7500 rpm and can substiture some power for some spool then the tubular manifolds are the way to go!

If someone was starting from scratch (meaning, you didnt buy a downpipe yet, intake, etc).. the cost difference isnt that great... BUT if you already have a nice downpipe (like AMS or UR).. and an intake, inlet pipe, etc.... Then youd have to resell those things because you wouldnt be able to use them.

I LOVE the tial housing because of weight, and simplicity and it's much easier to get on and off, if that is important to you. But the Stock housing turbos are VERY capable.

My two cents.

sincerly

CB

 

If planning on keeping stock block I say go for a Tial Housing GT30R HTA. Should make some great power while delivering good spool up characteristics. The GT3582R HTA is awesome power but a bit laggy on stock 2.0 liter.

 

Dan, is that you? I'm stuck with that condo in Novi for the rest of my life, BTW. LOL. Appreciate your 2 cents. What is so special about a HTA 3076R over a plain GT3076R? ETS charges an extra $500 for the 'HTA'

Chad @ CBRD: Thanks again for your input, it's appreciated! I'm trying to learn as much as I can, so I can make what I think is an informed decision before pulling the trigger. BTW, on your tial housing kits, you have the intercooler pipes listed as an option. Do my T1R intercooler pipes need to be completely replaced with your pipes?

 

If only there was some solution to the small displacement!

 

So would you all say a black is ok on stock internals due to the lag, or is the topend power too much for it?

 

Hey with these external wastegate kits, can the boost still be controlled with the ECU through the BCS, or do you have to get a new boost controller?

 

ECU works fine with external wastegate.

 

Yea it still works perfectly fine with the EBCS. Just need to move around a vacuum hose or two.

 

You are really going to want to drive or get a ride in one of these non-stock frame turbo equipped stock motor 2.0L Evo 10's.

Personally I'd stay with a stock frame turbo for a fun all around car. The biggie turbos are inviting because the peak numbers are yummy but the lag is not for everyone. Plus the biggie turbos really need to be on a motor that can rev. The head design on the Evo 10 flows very well and really shines with more airflow....if you can rev it out, which you can't on a stock motor.

- Bryan

 

You are really going to want to drive or get a ride in one of these non-stock frame turbo equipped stock motor 2.0L Evo 10's.

Personally I'd stay with a stock frame turbo for a fun all around car. The biggie turbos are inviting because the peak numbers are yummy but the lag is not for everyone. Plus the biggie turbos really need to be on a motor that can rev. The head design on the Evo 10 flows very well and really shines with more airflow....if you can rev it out, which you can't on a stock motor.

- Bryan

thanks, Bryan. I'm planning on getting a ride in Robert's car. Now, when you say you can't rev it out on a stock motor, does that mean upgrading to kelford b cams and springs will allow this, or is that still not enough?

Joe